Whose Vacuum Chamber is Bigger: JSC or GRC? (Update)
NASA Plum Brook vacuum chamber in Sandusky is the largest in the world, despite what NASA folks in Texas claim, Cleveland.com
“The vacuum chamber at Plum Brook, called the Space Power Facility, measures 863,000 cubic feet. To get an idea of its vastness, check out the opening minutes of “The Avengers” movie, filmed inside the chamber. The one at Johnson, called Chamber A, is 400,000 cubic feet.”
NASA Invites Media Inside World’s Largest Vacuum Chamber, JSC
“The world’s largest thermal-vacuum chamber will be open to news media at NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston on Thursday, April 4.”
Keith’s 9 April update: The JSC Vs GRC competition claiming that they both host “the world’s largest thermal vacuum chamber” continues despite the fact that GRC’s has a volume twice the size of JSC’s. According to This week at NASA, 8 April 2013 at 5:20 into the video JSC has “…the world’s largets thermal vacuum chamber …” I guess facts are irrelevant to JSC PAO. Odd that this video still makes this claim when NASA PAO quietly modified its original release to say something else (see below).
NASA audit says test facilities in Cleveland, Sandusky may be expendable, Cleveland.com
“K-Site Cryogenic Propellant Tank Research Facility (vacuum chamber)
Location: NASA Plum Brook
Year built: 1958
Last year used: 2004
Yearly operating and maintenance cost: $0 (inactive)
Reason for declining use: Poor condition
Future plans: Demolish by 2014”
Keith’s 1 April note: Whoa … NASA has done some quiet updating to a media advisory without bothering to send a revised press release to the media. If you go to the archived version of this release at NASA.gov it is now titled “NASA Invites Media Inside One of the World’s Largest Vacuum Chambers” it opens with “HOUSTON — One of the two largest vacuum chambers in the world will be open to news media at NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston on Thursday, April 4.”. Yet the original version that I posted on SpaceRef (I have archived the version of what JSC sent out) – was different i.e. “NASA Invites Media Inside World’s Largest Vacuum Chamber 03/21/2013 12:00 AM EDT The world’s largest thermal-vacuum chamber will be open to news media at NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston on Thursday, April 4.”
When they first issued this release, it was fine to brag about big stuff at JSC. But when it became clear to them that they were wrong, well, why mention GRC eh? Its just another NASA center. JSC made a mistake and now they are afraid to even admit it – and quietly change the original and hope no one will notice. How pathetic.
As we all say “size doesn’t matter. (ok at least I say that). The sucking sound you are hearing is the “vacuum of space” where $$ for keeping both of them open is going.
Or maybe ask, why was the JSC one refurbished at all, when SPF has been around since the 60’s.
“When they first issued this release, it was fine to brag about big stuff at JSC.”
Keith come on man. You should know by now everything is bigger in Texas.
Why can’t they just say “The second largest thermal-vacuum chamber in the world.”?
This whole article is so senseless it might as well be another 4/1 joke…
The SPF at NASA Plum Brook Station has been used when all other facilities are simply too small. Good info here (which is why I was shocked that the JSC PAO got this completely *wrong* the first time around):
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW…
The SPF is antiquated and would require significant investment to upgrade it for serious consideration for many future NASA programs.
JWST examined and rejected the SPF for many reasons and issues.
antiquated? https://twitter.com/elonmus… Not really…
I did a little research and learned that the SPF received major upgrades (maybe tens of millions of $s) a few years ago to get it ready for Constellation testing.
So Constellation actually did do something useful after all.
Correct, and now also houses the world’s largest mechanical vibratory facility and world’s most powerful reverberant acoustic chamber (just shy of largest volume but definitely most powerful). But even prior to these upgrades SPF has done great space environment test work; example ISS radiator panels & Mars lander airbag systems. They exposed mission ending flaws on Earth before launch, rather than after launch (how much did it cost to correct Hubble’s original near-sighted condition?). Full scale testing identifies problems where they can be easily fixed. SAVE MONEY TEST FIRST.
If the SPF had been upgraded earlier, JWST might have chosen to go there instead of JSC, although political pressure might have driven it to JSC anyway.
Gonzo, my understanding decision primarily based on air transport access. JSC has Ellington 3 mi away, SPF air trans relies on CLE Hopkins or Mansfield Lahm. Upgrades during mid-2000’s were for Constellation, adding mech vibratory & reverb acoustic chambers. SPF was (and still is) capable of testing JWST (the entire vehicle & system) just need an on-site runway to enable direct air transport.
Bottom line; both are good chambers for space environmental testing. Best lesson here is that TESTING MAKES A DIFFERENCE! There are plenty of spacecraft & launch vehicles that need testing before flight, and these 2 chambers (plus others) should be more fully utilized to drive down risk. If these vehicles are for NASA or DOD then US taxpayers are the “insurance providers”; shouldn’t we mandate full-scale space environmental testing before flight? SAVE MONEY TEST FIRST.
Does the Plum Brook chamber have thermal-vacuum capability? If not then JSC might have that largesrt thermal-vacuum chamber afterall.
The SPF is a thermal vacuum chamber made of aluminum since it was originally designed to test nuclear propulsion units for space applications.
JSC’s TV chamber is made of steel.
Gonzo is correct, SPF is a very unique design. The Al TVAC chamber sits inside a concrete/steel VAC chamber which pumps down simultaneously to protect the Al TVAC.
This week at NASA narration released yesterday: JSC Chamber A “the largest thermal vacuum chamber”
The “world’s largest” claim that Chamber A used to have was “world’s largest human-rated thermal vacuum chamber”. However, man-rating went away quite a while ago as there was no need for it. Chamber B (the LEM-sized one) is human-rated and has been used for space suit and EVA tool development.
I believe one main distinction between the GRC vs. JSC facility is that they don’t have the same performance ranges (and this means we are somewhat comparing apples to oranges). I do not think the GRC facility can bring the ambient temperature in the chamber down to 11 deg. Kelvin as JSC’s Chamber A is now capable of doing.