Waypoint2space Clarifies A Few Things About Astronaut Training at NASA JSC
Keith’s note: I finally had a chance to talk with Kevin Heath from Waypoint2space about their astronaut training services in response to earlier postings on NASAWatch. Heath confirmed that they do not have a signed Space Act Agreement with NASA in place and that it is currently stuck in NASA Legal limbo (that certainly can happen). Waypoint2space says that they do have a signed agreement with Jacobs Engineering but that only deals with their interactions with Jacobs – not NASA. Heath also confirmed that NASA JSC Mission Operations Directorate (MOD) has declined to work with them but that the JSC Engineering Directorate was interested. As stated earlier, I find it somewhat perplexing to see how NASA can support a cmpany offering astronaut training when the very part of NASA (MOD) that does such things declines to participate.
With regard to statements on his website that describe current/existing cooperation with NASA and use of NASA facilities Heath said it was OK to say that they are working with JSC and already offer services because no one at JSC has told him not to – yet he has no agreement in place saying that they have NASA’s agreement with regard to their participation/support. I suggested that not saying ‘no’ does not equal yes when it comes to NASA legal but Heath stuck to his point that an absence of no = yes.
As to statements on the Waypoint2space website such as “Operating from NASA’s Johnson Space Center, we offer the definitive training experience with our fully comprehensive and immersive space training programs” Heath said that they had rented a warehouse offsite for classes but that their offices were in the Houston Technology Center (HTC) building (35) at NASA JSC hence the “operating from” language. I suggested that the wording and photographs on their website gave the clear implication that his company is providing these training services at JSC. But Heath preferred the split-hair distinction that “operating from” JSC had nothing to do with the classes that they are selling offsite. The way that their website is currently written it clearly invokes and implies the use of NASA facilities (which are onsite by definition).
Heath said that they will not be using centrifuges for high-G training but will use high performance aircraft instead. He did not specify where EVA or high altitude training would be offered. When asked how weightless parabolas would be provided – and if JSC and/or ZeroG would be providing these services – Heath declined to respond for proprietary purposes. The building that they claim (on their website) to be building would be built offsite from JSC at Ellington Field – not onsite at JSC.
As I have stated many times before with regard to this specific business and others, I think that selling astronaut/spaceflight participant/space tourist training services for people who will ride into or work in space is a great idea – even if they cannot afford to go there. If for no other reason, this serves to spread an awareness of what it is like to live and work in space and that the future holds promise for real careers in this field. Indeed, I have completed suborbital scientist training at NASTAR. The issue I do have – and continue to have – with Waypoint2space (and some other startup companies) is lack of total transparency and total accuracy about what is and is not being offered – by whom and where it is being offered. In this case, some simple editorial fixes to their website, a few discussions with NASA, and more interaction with the news media should clear that up.
Keith’s update: Subsequent to our interaction (below) I got additional comments from Kevin Heath including:
“In working with NASA we have to be careful what we say and how we say it so we have been careful to say that we train people like how NASA Astronauts train but you do not become an Astronaut by going through our programs. The only way you become an Astronaut is by going above 62 miles into space and the only way you become a NASA Astronaut is by going through their Astronaut Candidate Training program. So what we say is we train you “like” an Astronaut.”
This caveat or explanation does not appear anywhere on their website. All you see are pictures of someone in a NASA EVA trainign suit with phrases such as “This could be you!” and “Have you ever wanted to be an astronaut?” with accompanying text:
“To go into space, step out of the vehicle, and float above the earth while reaching for the stars – but wondered if you have what it takes? For the first time in history, you can train like an astronaut using the most advanced facilities and equipment in the world. Operating from NASA’s Johnson Space Center, we offer the definitive training experience with our fully comprehensive and immersive space training programs. These one-of-a-kind programs prepare you for spaceflight while you experience first hand what every astronaut has during their preparation for space. Additionally, SFP’s are trained in accordance to our FAA Safety Approval ensuring a consistent level of spaceflight competency.”
CLEARLY Waypoint2Space wants you to be thinking about astronaut training – at “NASA Johnson Space Center”. Otherwise they’d explicitly say “we are not training astronauts at NASA Johnson Space Center” – and avoid showing pictures of people dressed up like real astronauts undergoing training – right? This website is deceptive in the extreme.
– Waypoint2space: Closer Look at Website Claims About Operations at NASA JSC, earlier post
– Can You Train Like An Astronaut at JSC for $45,000? Not Without NASA’s Permission, earlier post
It just seems deceptive. If you look at their “orbital training” page you see a banner photo from the Systems Engineering Simulator (SES) outfitted with the shuttle aft cockpit performing a simulated ISS docking. Surely the implication is that this facility is part of the curriculum? Yet the shuttle cockpits are long gone from the SES so it’s flat out impossible for this to happen as shown today.
Yea these pictures really give the impression that students will get to use off of these things except nearly all of the shuttle training facilities are in museums scattered across the country.
All sorts of alarm bells (or at least unease) in what Keith wrote, and throughout the comments on Keith’s earlier article.
And people still wonder why it might be stuck in NASA Legal . . ..
This is being examined at NASA HQ. Stay tuned.
A while back I Challenged Astronauts for hire, as to whether or not they were post 9/11 GI bill / pell grant/student loan eligible
if not then steer clear of these……….
It is so easy to just be up front and honest – I am not sure why some companies/organizations are not.
Steven, A4H itself does not provide training or make any money off training. Instead, we have partnered with different companies to provide training (NASTAR, SSUSA, SIRIUS) at a discount to our members. Any GI bill or loan options would be contingent upon those company policies and not anything intrinsic to A4H. A4H is a nonprofit organization that brings a community of aspiring astronauts together to create opportunities that advance space research and awareness in commercial spaceflight. Training is a means to that end but it is not the goal in itself.
And of course, Brian, you and a small group of hand-selected individuals receive training and benefit personally from the efforts of this non-profit.
A4H currently consists of 154 members and is still growing at a steady rate of about 2-4 people per month. All members regardless of type benefit from the organization in the same way, and opportunity to participate in research or training activities is available to anyone.
Here we go again: You claim to be “Astronauts for Hire” yet none of you are actually “astronauts”. Does your non-profit actually have “astroanuts” that it “hires” out i.e. accepts fees in exchange for their services? Misleading – and not what non-profits tend to do. And you do not list any advisors who have actually flown into space as “astronauts” or certified by NASA or other space agencies as “astronauts”. Just sayin’.
Keith, did the guy mention if anyone has signed up yet for the 45,000 dollar package yet?
I did not ask him about that.
In one blurb they said that there is a limited amount of seats and they were going fast… just curious if it was more stretching the true.
If you talk to him again, ask him about where the money is coming from for their massive “new facility coming soon”. By that I mean the Space Age Capitol building with the geodesic dome they have plastered on their website under “About”.
I’d be pretty appalled if these people were in fact, working out of any taxpayer owned building prior to the… uh… construction.. of their comic book-inspired command center.
CLASSES ARE FILLING UP FAST LOL!
Ya, that is why I asked Keith if he had asked that… smiles … I have a feeling that this company is being run by Mister Haney.
Well the first person that signs up and goes to visit these world class facilities will sue them.
Waypoint2Space…where not saying “no”, means YES!!!!
I want to work for this company. My first action shall be to send an email to some receptionist working at the IRS…asking for permission to stop paying my Federal Income Tax for perpetuity. If I do not receive a reply, I shall consider this as official approval, confirmation, and downright encouragement.
This is so sad. A really, really good idea being ruined by folks who are NOT invested in the dream but instead anxious to profit as much as possible as fast as possible. If they were, there would be way more transparency. Sad :^(
Oh yea, WP2S has not replied to my customer e-mail inquiry. I guess I’ll take my $45K and put it toward a Virgin Galactic flight that actually puts you in to space…kinda.
THis is bordering on FRAUD. I believe that JSC needs to dis associate itself with this sort of enterprise that only tries to cheapen the dignity of our space program by turning it into a dog and pony show! NASA and our space program are now in a most precarious state of affairs and no noe needs to be connecting itself to NASA, and implying that they are a part of the program and are training people for real space flight.