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SLS and Orion

Confusing Orion PR From NASA

By Keith Cowing
NASA Watch
August 31, 2014
Filed under , , ,

NASA Outreach on Social Media, This is True
“Worse, the word “Mars” isn’t anywhere in the story. Isn’t that the more interesting thing? We’re going to Mars? Cool! What are we going to do there? Yet the story doesn’t mention such a mission. After digging and digging through the Orion home page, going through all 11 pages of press releases, I didn’t find a single story that had the word “Mars” in the title. That’s when I went to find the “About Orion” box, way down the page (and copied above) that mentions that Orion might “eventually” be going to Mars. After doing some more research, I don’t find anything about an approved mission to Mars, but the earliest they could launch if they do get funding is the year 2020. Absolutely NASA should be doing long-range planning, and absolutely they should be doing public outreach, but if such a mission hasn’t even been designed yet, then the “return from Mars at 29,000 MPH” is speculative at best.”

NASA Watch founder, Explorers Club Fellow, ex-NASA, Away Teams, Journalist, Space & Astrobiology, Lapsed climber.

20 responses to “Confusing Orion PR From NASA”

  1. Andrew_M_Swallow says:
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    NASA obviously intends Orion to be launched from Earth and carry astronauts to the Mars Transfer Vehicle. Whether the capsule then goes to Mars or stays in Earth orbit may change every time NASA gets a new administrator.

    • DTARS says:
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      This capsule is better for BEO than the commercial capsules, because of radiation hardened electronics right?

      • Ben Russell-Gough says:
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        Well, perhaps. We still have to determine if SpaceX’s ‘Mars-ready’ ethos for Dragon goes as far as BEO-proofing the electronics and cabin walls.

        • DTARS says:
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          And of course if harding of dragon is needed there will be a dragon 2.2 which will not cost billions more.

  2. dogstar29 says:
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    A future president might potentially be able to persuade Congress to cancel the program, but it seems inconceivable that Congress will actually provide the money needed for human flight to Mars. Instead Congress will continue to ask NASA to explain how it will go to Mars without an increase in its budget.

  3. alf767 says:
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    Orion is not going to Mars. To the moon maybe but not Mars.

    • Allen Thomson says:
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      Orion is scoped to support a crew of four for 21 days plus, I’d guess, a bit of reserve. I’ve been subscribing to the NHATS (
      http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/nhats/ ) news letter for a while and notice that there are some, given enough delta-V, round-trip missions to free-range asteroids that come in at less than 100 days, even a few in the sub-50 range.

      If the crew were to be reduced to two, like the ARM contemplates, and the service module/ECLSS systems beefed up, Orion might be able to do such missions. Given, of course a suitable EDS to get that delta-V.

      But not Mars and not most NEOs without a separate habitat module. Which NASA has said it can’t afford.

  4. Astroraider says:
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    To even attempt a mission to Mars would require a crew habitat module and/or a sizeable cargo module for consummables (air, water, food, etc. – oh and LOTS OF PROPELLANT or DELTA V). You would also need a descent and ascent module(s) even if all you do is visit one or both of the Martian moons. Constellation is not the ideal vehicle for such a mission.

    • DTARS says:
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      So Orion is a moon capsule for a moon mission like Apollo, as it was originally intended, and NASA hopes another president will send us back to the moon? In constellation 2?

      • Ben Russell-Gough says:
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        No, it was a moon capsule turned into an ISS escape pod by Presidential fiat as a ‘shovel ready’ high-tech jobs program. This got turned into a general-purpose US crewed spacecraft for a to-be-determined-at-some-time-in-the-future mission by politicians and political staffers who were too busy to understand the details but realised that it was so heavy that it sort-of justified SLS.

    • Hug Doug ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ says:
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      yes, some habitat like this:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wik
      and a lander / ascent vehicle would need to be developed at some point, no matter where you want to go to.

      • DTARS says:
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        S@#$
        Have they even started on a lander or ascent vehicle yet? How long would it take NASA to build either one of those?

        How long have they been working on orion again?

        • Hug Doug ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ says:
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          “How long have they been working on orion again?”

          Since 2011.

          yes, starting in 2005 the R&D phase took forever, going through several major design revisions, through two different programs, and went through a major administrative policy change, a few name changes, and it -dang near- got cancelled entirely in 2010, but from actual start of hardware fabrication and testing and vehicle construction it’s really only been a few years.

          as for a lander / ascent vehicle, well, first we need to decide where to land! are we going to a small asteroid? to the Moon? to Mars? each would have vastly different vehicle requirements for a lander / ascent vehicle.

          but once a mission is actually agreed upon, design work tailored for that mission shouldn’t take all that long, and if proper funding, administrative support, and program management is given to the project, a timescale of 5-7 years wouldn’t be surprising for a lander / ascent vehicle to be designed, built, tested, and launched.

        • Ben Russell-Gough says:
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          I’ve seen a documentary about SLS and Mars that suggest that NASA has been looking seriously at the physics of EDL (the team that designed Curiosity‘s EDL, actually), at least on paper. However, I haven’t seen any indication that they’re actually developing the complete vehicle concept, let alone design, as yet.

  5. Half Moon says:
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    Where is the money going to come from for building the necessary BEO hardware and systems to go to Mars?

    Probably, keeping SLS in a ‘active’ state, ready for launch, is going to eat much of the $3B in development money they spend now, once development is over.

    So, unless ISS gets cancelled (not likely as looks like it’s going to be extended beyone 2020) or NASA gets a plus up in the budget, I would expect an Augustine III to be formed and SLS/Orion to be cancelled.

    That way, NASA can show folks that it has learned from its history

    • Michael Spencer says:
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      ISS won’t be cancelled until something big happens- possibly an accident. Something that will allow NASA to justify plunging $100B into the ocean because when it happens NASA is going to take a monstrous PR hit.

  6. Bart says:
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    Humans are going to Mars. When is not clear, but very likely in the next 200 years or so. How is the question….

    One thing I am quite sure of: Humans traveling with Nasa will get a warm welcome form other humans, who are already on Mars for quite some time 🙂

  7. BeanCounterFromDownUnder says:
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    Let’s face it, NASA cannot do any BEO exploration period. The reasons have been identified in other posts. The only hope for any Mars mission is going to be SpaceX. No body else is interested – well they may be interested however they don’t have the funding or the technology pathway. SpaceX seems to be the only company/nation that actually has a pathway. I see them collaborating with whoever they need to in order to achieve their mission be it other companies like Bigelow or Paragon or NASA and perhaps other countries.
    Cheers

    • Michael Spencer says:
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      B-b-but SLS!

      • BeanCounterFromDownUnder says:
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        SLS? Well by the time it actually flies, FH will have a flight record, Raptor will be a long way toward operational and SpaceX BFR will be under construction.
        So SLS will be irrelevant.
        Cheers.