SpaceX Faces Class Action Suit Over Layoffs
SpaceX Slapped With Wage Class Action Over Mass Layoff, Law 360
“Space Exploration Technologies Corp. is facing a putative class action in California court accusing it of not properly notifying its former employees of a mass layoff of up to roughly 400 workers in the state, and not paying them wages earned before termination. The proposed class action, filed Monday, alleged that SpaceX ordered the mass layoffs of between 200 and 400 workers on or about July 21 without giving advance notice to the them, in violation of California’s Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act.”
Dismissed SpaceX Employees Sue over Lack of Warning, SpaceNews
“The lawsuit, filed Aug. 4 in the California Superior Court for the County of Los Angeles, appears to hinge on whether SpaceX’s dismissal of several hundred employees is viewed by the court as a “layoff.” The lawsuit says that under California law, a “layoff” is defined as “a separation from a position for lack of funds or lack of work.”
These. People were not laid off. They were fired for unsatisfactory proformace after a company review.
If a company wants to be the best. It has to have the best people that perform at their best.
Whether this is good or not for SpaceX is not the point … the point is that they did not complied with the law by providing a 60 day notice and paid wages before termination
Its not clear that the SpaceX dismissals, even though they came all at once, qualify as a “layoff” under California law. That is one of the issues that will, one presumes, be settled before trial if the case proceeds that far.
As I know from having lived and worked here for 40 years, California is, in most respects, an “at will” state in which employees may be discharged for any reason or no reason at any time.
Apparently you have evidence that the plaintiff’s lawyers don’t have.
… then they would never be lay offs, just firing from unsatisfactory performance and then all companies would be immune to comply with labor laws
I don’t know the precise definition of “layoff” in the advance notification law, but I believe it makes reference to losses of business, and even here it may apply only to such losses as the company has advance knowledge of such as the loss of a government contract.
That isn’t SpaceX’s situation so, as I also noted in my comment above, there may be no legal basis for classing this particular mass dismissal as a layoff. If this matter is adjudicated in SpaceX’s favor, there may never be any trial, at least on the advance notification issue.
Companies that suffer sudden, sharp economic reverses may be able to shed employees without penalty. I don’t know for sure; I haven’t read the text of the relevant law or laws.
On my own personal employment backtrail, I’ve been let go without warning several times when certain of my employers suffered sudden drops in revenue of up to 50% in as little as a month. Remember the “Dot-Com Bust?” That was one of those times.
I have no details about SpaceX, but, elsewhere in the tech world…
People fail the “Critical Skills Inventory”… Yeah, yeah, that’s “for cause”, ain’t it? It’s all part of HR’s “Rank ‘n Yank” theory… but, frankly, the view from the bottom of the food chain ain’t pretty since it’s just an excuse.
As for SpaceX… WTF? I thought the company was an example of a SUCCESSFUL company.
Quotation of mine inspired by NASA after Challenger:
“Leaders maximize gains; Managers merely minimize losses.”
I’ve been caught in the undertow of RIFtides before; With the size of this one, any claim of “poor performance” is a smoke-screen and excuse.
I do suspect that many RIF’d workers may need to take EBK 101: “Executive Butt-Kissing”… though I suspect there are remedial programs available.
I’ve seen RIFs where the ones who failed the “Critical Skills” were the ones who would not have used the phrase “I was only following orders”…
(shakes head)
So, SpaceX, again, WTF? Are employees _that_ fungible to you?
Seems when you grade on a bell curve good hard workers can be lost perhaps destroying the morale of your team. I recall Spacex making a similiar mistake about live video of launches perhaps alienating their strong fan base/popular support.
This doesn’t make any sense.
They just launched another rocket. They have a 4.7 billion dollar
backlog. 3,500 direct employees, and at least 500 contractors.Why are
they laying off 11% of their workforce???
It’s been pretty common for dot-com start-ups to do mass layoffs even while still hiring. Churns out those who’ve been burnt out by the 60+hr weeks, makes everyone else work harder. Brutal, but thats how Silicon Valley works.
Because the dead wood must be culled, to hire the best to keep the company lean and mean and ahead of the pack.
Again, share with us from whence your detailed knowledge of SpaceX’s human resource actions. In doing so, please spare us your politics.
It’s not politics, its business. I remind you that in Silicon Valley, where review terminations are common, the politics are distinctly left. In other sectors the same thing is done and the politics are distinctly right. No difference.
These things are seldom done out of the blue. Usually an in person review is done and the employee is given some period of time to improve. If they do, fine. If not, there’s the door. All documented and ready for nuisance lawsuits.
You right Mr. Squared we should never talk politics at NASA watch. Just pay our taxes and get what we get right? We deserve nothing more for our tax dollar than what we get.
You are right I don’t know if Spacex broke the law or not. My first statement basically stated their defence. However my other statements are examples of how in my experience small businesses have used hard working people like me to gain advantage in the market place. Is it not the cold hard facts of capitalism which many of Americans hold so dear? Is it not one of the reasons so few people/Spacex have been more productive than the rest of the industry?
Other than getting talented people to work their asses off. Why else is Spacex about to that the launch industry be storm?
I don’t buy the disruptive tech stuff
What are they really doing?
Are they not simply making a better more affordable product by applying normal business principles?
Just getting folks to work their asses off to build a better cheaper mouse trap.
Just listioned to a NASA video where NASA used the daring flight of Apollo 8 to promote the SLS Orion monster. I wanted to throw up. To people that have no clue about affordable Space I would think it was very convincing.
“Why else is Spacex about to that the launch industry be storm?” ?
That should be take. typo
“Just getting folks to work their asses off to build a better cheaper mouse trap.”
And just how long can SpaceX continue this before his people wise up and call in a union?
Do Spacex employees get paid as well as employees from other space firms or not????
From the few people that I know who work there the pay they were offered was less than industry–but it may depend on location. Other that were offered positions in California said the pay was not enough to consider a move.
Same here on the East Coast, they get paid less and keep getting promised shares of SpaceX. lots of good will that do when they burn out and get fired.
I was approached by a recruiter working for SpaceX. He spelled it out for me; they pay a bit less than industry but 50 hour workweeks are *mandatory*. No discussion on that! However, O/T is available so at least you get paid for it (some legacy Aerospace firms have what’s known as “Casual OT” which means you don’t get paid for the first several hours of OT you work, typically 8.) So it’s a tradeoff – love to work and you will be fine.
Is there some reason you aren’t answering PsiSquared’s question? How do you know what you say?
Made the first post in this thread after reading articles like everybody else which suggested the workers had been terminated after a yearly review. Please refer to Marc Bouchers post to tony_rush for a more accurate update of issue.
Mr. Squared
Seems to me that most people that work for NASA and Space firms are conservative Republican? Is that true?
It also seems to me after reading NASA watch for years that one difference between the parties is simply the fight over getting public tax money to be sent your way?
Seems as long as you can get Joe Lunch Boxes taxes little else matters.
Isn’t that largely why we are still grounded on earth?
Party being political parties and or the tribes of our public space program..
Wow. It’s no surprise that you came to the conclusion you did after such a huge sampling of space industry employees. Oh my gosh, you must have sampled literally a handful or two. What a huge number. Heck, if you can’t draw valid conclusions based an such a massive data set, then surely you can’t draw any conclusions.
By the way, you’re not Joe Lunch Box and you don’t represent or speak for Joe Lunch Box or John Q Public or any of the other made up personas that you toss out when you’re tying to pretend to be deep and thoughtful, so quit pretending. Speak for yourself and don’t pretend that you have the knowledge or experience to speak for anyone else. Quit confusing your opinions and biased observations with facts.
More stuff for you to read about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik…
lean and mean is fine as long as you comply with labor laws just like everybody else
Agree
True. But it is far from clear at the moment that SpaceX has violated any labor laws. Two ex-employees allege this to be true, but that can hardly be taken as gospel. The legal process will determine the truth or falsity of the allegations. That will likely take awhile.
No it won’t. Legal proceedings don’t determine truth or facts. They determine in a subjective manner who has the best argument.
SpaceX reported a less than 5% reduction in their workforce. Your 11% does not agree with the stated facts. If they had 3800 workers at the time, a number that was out there, and let go of 5% then that would equate to 190 jobs. Regardless, SpaceX said they did indeed lay people off and were specific in their reasons as to why. It’s up to the court now to decide if SpaceX adhered to the CAL Warn Act.
https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse…
DTARS one day you will receive your karmic retribution for your inhumanity.
Tony
Already serving my retribution time. Lol
I have been in construction for many years, supervised projects where it was my job to make the project move as fast as possible. In effect I would have to work myself out of a job then go find another project.
Currently I am working with a crack group of Iron workers. The company we work for gets more business because when we show up. It is done right and done fast and done safely. We work 10 or 11 hours on week days, 10 on Saturday, 8 on Sunday. 16 days on, 4 days off. As result of our work ethic construction companies want us on their job.
Will I burnout? Probably.
Not all people get to have nice cushy 40 hour week jobs doing what they love.
Joe Lunch Box
PS Its an honor to work with such people
And you wonder why the SLS jobs program makes me so mad.
Your choice. I prefer a more balanced life.
SpaceX hires a fair number of people with legacy aerospace experience. I’m guessing the terminations were mostly of people from this sort of background who couldn’t adapt to the fast pace and long hours SpaceX is said to require. When you grow up in the laid-back manana culture of legacy aerospace, I’m sure the culture of SpaceX – especially the pace – comes as quite a shock.
I think 10hrs per day 6 days per week, constantly week in and week out is a little much to expect from anyone. But Musk is able to cash in on the enthusiasm of young folks who do not yet understand or value the life/work balance.
Many many people in our society have little choice but to work long hard hours to put enough food on the table. The construction trade is an example. In our country much of the people on the jobs speak only Spanish. 60 hours doing engineering likely in air conditioning is a cake walk compared to building foundations/form work/rodbusting/iron work/out in the heat or the cold or the rain. Space engineers have it pretty good as a rule compared to many that pay the taxes for projects like SLS. So shouldn’t engineers be expected to work hard as well? And when the projects turn into expensive jokes like Orion SLS its almost a crime.
Joe Lunch Box
Some people will do it just to be part of it.
Not everyone views work as a terrible thing.
engineers are professionals and have options, so you can’t compare them to unskilled workers … they have it pretty good because while many of those unskilled workers were goofing off they were studying hard. It’s about supply and demand.
Unskilled workers don’t turn construction sites into homes, commercial buildings, factories or launch vecilities Mr. young engineer lol and unlike you perhaps they didn’t have the money or time/to busy working learning their skill on the job, to study to be an engineer.
So your from the professional Tribe?
I see
Add
Why did you think I was talking about unskilled workers? Was it because I said many speak Spanish?
Many of our finest concrete craftsmen come from Mexico.
… the difference is that everyone can become a construction worker if they chose to, but not everyone can become an engineer. So they are not the same. What’s next? Everyone can play in the NFL? Be a heart surgeon?
You know precious little about what it takes to become an en engineer or scientist or what their work day is like. As someone who who grew up on construction sites and spent many years there and as someone who is now a scientist, it’s obvious to me that you have zero evidence of what you claim. As usual you make assumptions that you can in no way support.
You have never tried to do engineering for 60 hrs in an airconditioned office, have you? I have worked as a construction worker over summers to make money to go to school and it was infinitely easier than engineering. At the end of a physical day, you feel tired so you sit down have a brewski and watch some TV. When I get home after a day of engineering all I can do to recuperate is sleep.
My experience has been in construction management, mostly as a site superintendent that requires about 60 hours a week if done without assistants plus the constant stress till the project is complete. In all my construction experience I have never seen anyone work as hard as these iron workers. I agree with your point that with many “nonprofessional” jobs you can relax at the end of the day. Mr. Zach may need to learn to appreciate what people from other tribes do.
I wonder what the stress is like on the people/team that launch rockets?
Mr. Munkie Spacex has launched on time. I will be 59 this September twelfth. What do you think the odds are that the first recoverable liquid fueled boaster will be recovered on my birthday. Marking the beginning of affordable Reusable Space Age?
That would require Spacex’s next two launchs getting off in their launch window and their fourth successful trip out of hyperspace finding the target barge.
Be a cool birthday present 🙂
I’ve been fired and laid off several times and have left jobs on my own. For all three classes of departure there are former employers I have a negative attitude about and others I still have a positive attitude about.
Hiring is anything but an exact science. Even if a new hire’s credentials and experience are exactly as advertised, that person may not prove to be a good fit in a particular situation. There’s often no way to anticipate what may occur post-hire.
So long as employee terminations are seen as fair by remaining employees, morale won’t necessarily suffer. I’ve actually worked places where morale improved after certain individuals were let go.
I have no insider insight into the general morale of SpaceX employees either before or after the recent terminations, but the impact can’t be assumed to be categorically negative.
Anent the lawsuit, America is a litigious society and California even moreso. But SpaceX is still hiring and their book of business continues to grow. For that reason, the recent terminations may not fall within the legal definition of “layoff” as no downturn in business seems to have prompted the dismissals. As always in these matters, the courts will have the last word.
I was recently approached by someone saying that their director friend at SpaceX had texted looking for my someone with my specific skill set. This is another reason why I wouldn’t work for them, unless I was desperate.