More Unfunded Commercial Partnerships Announced by NASA
NASA Selects Commercial Space Partners for Collaborative Partnerships, NASA
“NASA announced Tuesday the selection of four U.S. companies to collaborate with NASA through unfunded partnerships to develop new space capabilities available to the government and other customers. The partnerships build on the success of NASA’s commercial spaceflight initiatives to leverage NASA experience and expertise into new capabilities.”
– ATK Space Systems, in Beltsville, Maryland, is developing space logistics, hosted payload and other space transportation capabilities.
– Final Frontier Design, in Brooklyn, New York, is developing intra-vehicular activity space suits.
– Space Exploration Technologies, in Hawthorne, California, is developing space transportation capabilities that could be used to support missions into deep space.
– United Launch Alliance, in Centennial, Colorado, is developing new launch vehicle capabilities to reduce cost and enhance performance.
– ATK and NASA Announce Commercial Space Capabilities Partnership
SpaceX and NASA are now formally working on deep space exploration together. I’ll admit that it comes a lot sooner than I would have expected. Does anyone have details on just what projects are included?
my gut instinct (wishful thinking?) is that it’s probably related to the proposed Red Dragon mission, though the description given by NASA could be about anything. some quick googling did not find the texts of any of the proposals that were submitted to NASA.
there’s a bit more information in the links at the end of the NASA article http://www.nasa.gov/press/2…
Well, my gut feeling (or wishful thinking) is for improvements to the Falcon Heavy’s deep space capability. The current configuration isn’t ideal: While it is supposed to put 2.5-3 times as much mass in LEO as a Delta heavy, the relative mass it can put on an escape trajectory is quite a bit lower. As it stands, they either need to expend a core, add an upper stage, or both.
interesting thought, and also a likely possibility.
actually there’s a simpler solution (and one i think SpaceX will move to do sooner rather than later, anyway) and that’s to use a Falcon Heavy with a second stage utilizing a fuel that has a higher ISP than RP-1. namely, Methane.
It simpler just to increase the propellant tankage for the upper stage of the FH. The current FH upper stage is under size like the Delta IV. SpaceX is not going to developed a Merlin size or smaller methane engine while the Raptor engine is in development.
while it’s true that the second stage is “undersized,” there’s not a lot of options for increasing its size. the simple solution would be to lengthen it, but SpaceX already did that once, the Falcon 9 is a very long and skinny rocket as it is. the ideal fitness ratio for a rocket is about 14-15 to 1 and the Falcon 9 has a fitness ratio of 18 to 1. there’s not a lot of margin before it becomes very easy to bend the rocket.
so the other option is to increase its diameter, and i don’t think that’s compatible with the current configuration of the Falcon Heavy.
so you’re really only left with using a higher ISP fuel, which is more efficent for use in space anyway.
Increasing FH upper stage tankage would only add about 3 meters for about 30 to 40 metric tons more propellants. Basically adding a couple of barrel sections to the upper stage.
Using a different fuel will basically means making a new upper stage. A new engine will be required. Also the less dense methane (your preference) will need more tankage.
Any height increase in the FH upper stage could be offset by a shorten payload fairing. Especially for outer system space probes.
All roads for Musk lead to the BFR. That is the goal everything else is designed to support that end goal.
Any chance it’s propellant crossfeed among first stage cores, or is that already a given? Just throwing an idea out.
..nah nevermind, it specifically says deep space missions so probably not related.
ULA and “Reduce Cost”? Canidate for contridiction of the year!!
ULA “Hey Nasa, Can you show us how to save money?”
Thats a scream 🙂
More like an AA meeting
Yes, there’s no doubt that’s the narrative you’d like everyone to read.
What it might actually indicate is that ULA understands that SpaceX has forced a paradigm change in terms of cost and that ULA needs to do the same if they want to be competitive in the future. ULA may already be on that path with recently announced agreement with Blue Origin/Jeff Bezos.
Unlike you, I’m not giddily wishing for the demise of anyone in the US industry since I realize that a 1 dimensional industry does not benefit anyone interested in reducing costs and moving forward with HST.
Perhaps waving your pompoms so aggressively is preventing you from thinking about things more in depth. I’d recommend reading the NASA announcement about these SAAs and their intent again.
You prejudge me once again Mr. Squared. I wish for no ones demise sir. I like you am for positive change. I’m very excited about Jeff Brezo and ULA working together. The big companies with government connections can make the biggest difference. Years back Steve Whitfield said something like “If Boeing decided to, they could make great things happen rapidly.” Do you not recall me saying I was glad Boeing and Spacex both Won Commercial Crew and saying OK big fella are you going to beat Spacex or not?
You must admit reading that NASA is helping Boeing save money is humorous 🙂
And it is a wonderful sign of progress as I see it.
Merry Christmas Sir 🙂
There’s only your comments to evaluate.
Agree Sir 🙂
Isn’t this NASA acting more NACA like? Isn’t this great news?
I don’t think that NASA has ever stopped acting like NACA. undertaking Aerospace and Aeronautic research projects (alongside industry partners) has always been a part of what NASA does.
And as far as a one dimensional industry is concerned I believe I ask you , perhaps not very clearly, if you thought it was better for NASA to give old space more money to compete with Spacex or not? I believe NASA helping them in this manner is the best answer to that question.
“More Unfunded Commercial Partnerships Announced by NASA”
As long as the usual suspects are so completely tied to the congressional districts, it will not really matter. In three areas, transportation, communications and energy you find most tied to the general masses. If you look at their history you find at one time, it gets tied to the interests of congressional districts and the pork train starts. Infrastucture gets built up over time that supports it. Then a paradigm shift as a new tech replaces and old one. From the pony express to the telegraph to the telephone to sats and the internet. They are all one time the favorite right up until that time .. .they are not.
Space transporation is the only one that was outside that norm. Ballistic missiles as a commercial transportation system just did not sit well with either the miltiary or interests in congress and it stayed a monopoly/monopsony inside NASA.
You are starting to see the shift as the transition is starting. Once there is commercial cargo, crew and a commercial destination you will start seeing members of congress no longer willing to go along with the space states pork. It will get voted out of the NASA budget or NASA will be only be buying commercial and the big fat FAR development contracts will become fewer.
Boeing and others know what it takes to save money but that means disowning congressional support and going it without them. Cut layers of management etc.
Seems to me that NASA helping industry in this way is a very important step. I would think that these partnerships will lead to lots of progress in getting us off this rock?
This is the kind of arrangement that shows government at its finest.