Dealing With Harassment at American Astronomical Society
Keith’s note: The issue of harassment – of all kinds – in all aspects of science – and elsewhere – is a pervasive, malignant issue that needs to be aggressively addressed – and eliminated – period. That said, how the space/astronomy community uses social media to address this issue needs a little more in the way of logic checks and community monitoring. I came across this tweet from an American Astronomical Society meeting attendee. The usually vocal Twitter crowd at AAS has been amazingly silent with regard to this tweet. This is the very first time in the 19.95 years of NASAWatch that profanity has ever appeared on this site. I hope it is the last time. Its use is the sign of a lazy mind, if nothing else. But in this case, it is news. Hence, I post it.
I feel really special! 🙂 https://t.co/ihqmEObNKl
— Danny Barringer (@HeavyFe_H) January 8, 2016
And now Marshall Perrin from the Space Telescope Science Institute agrees with Danny Barringer’s comments from #aas227. Harassment is a problem that has many sympathizers – both passive and agressive. This is insidious, folks.
@HeavyFe_H if you've got the NASA Watch guy annoyed at you, you're definitely doing something right. 🙂
— Marshall Perrin (@marshallperrin) January 8, 2016
And yes, there is a certain pot-kettle-black issue here on NASA Watch. I certainly push the envelope. But there is a clear line between commenting on someone’s opinion – and commenting on the person – as a person. Using threatening, profane comments clearly crosses the line. What has been really astonishing is seeing the way that AAS members use Twitter to harass people – who raise issues about harassment. Eye opening. AAS needs to take a close look – at how they take a close look – at harassment.
Hi Keith,
I’m not sure why you took such offense to what was in Danny’s original tweet. We’re all grown ups and have heard those words before. Frankly if harassment isn’t worth swearing about, what is? People are getting hurt, and it needs to be stopped. Sometimes that takes strong language, and more. And like you say, you push the envelope here. Are you telling me you’ve never used similar language before in your life? So I don’t see what the problem is with the original tweet above.
I take substantial offense to your statement that I’m “part of the problem”. That is offensive and frankly false. You’re not here at the AAS as far as I know, you don’t know who I am, and don’t have any ideas what actions I’ve taken and conversations I’ve had over the past days and months addressing this issue. I was a student at Berkeley when many of the events recently discussed in the press took place. Marcy was on my thesis committee. None of these problems are news to me. Issues of equity and inclusion in astrophysics are something I care deeply about, and act on.
Harassment is using a position of power to negatively impact others around you. It’s not calling out someone for bad behavior, or giving people a warning that bad behavior won’t be tolerated. Even if that warning uses some words that might get it rated PG-13.
I’m glad to hear that you’re interested in fighting harassment in the space sciences. But frankly based on your posts here and on twitter, it doesn’t sound like you’re speaking from a position of personal experience or expertise on these issues. Please note that I am not attacking you as a person, but I think you owe it to yourself to educate yourself further on these issues, and on the ways in which one can act as an ally to those who need it. This AAS meeting has been full of many excellent discussion sessions, hallway conversations, and people taking action so that we can continue to improve the field for all. There’s been tremendous energy about this. Speaking out forcefully against those who would harass others is one of many, many necessary steps.
Cheers, – M
You are “not sure why you took such offense to what was in Danny’s original tweet.” No, I am not there. If he walked up and said these very same words to someone at the conference with the same emphasis they’d rightfully be offended. You are part of the problem. Not the Solution.
Barringer’s comment was directed, in a generalized sense, at those committing the sexual harrassment.
If a senior prof was reaching under a dinner table to stroke his female graduate student’s thigh against her will, to choose a non-hypothetical example from UC Berkeley’s investigation, I really don’t care much if the person committing that unwanted touch is offended if they are told to “back the F off!”. If it takes being harsh and direct to get that person to stop grabbing his students’ body parts, repeated more gentle reminders having failed, so be it.
In terms of the third-party situation, if a colleague at a conference said to me in the hallway, “We need to tell those harassers to BACK THE F OFF!”, in exactly those words, er, no, I wouldn’t be offended at all. Why would I be (i.e., the colleague is not telling *me* to back the F off)?
The two examples you have are not equivalent to what happened. The equivalent is to walk into someone’s professional workspace and yell the Tweet in a full auditorium of people who’s past experiences you do not know.
Why would I be offended? See above.
I think we have radically different ideas about whether Twitter is a ‘workspace’.
Just as one example, your ‘walk in and yell’ analogy fails in that the yeller would be interrupting, uninvited and unexpectedly, at a volume level that prevents other communication from taking place during the duration of their interruption. When one views someone’s tweets you *expect* that they will have tweeted things! And nothing causes one tweet to render other tweets unreadable. More fundamentally, the voluntary, personal nature of reading tweets simply does not equate as a potential form of harassment to to speech imposed upon you where being in that setting is a condition of employment.
Past experiences? It could be that using a photo of a cute kitten triggers a specific childhood trauma for someone in an auditorium. I don’t think one instance of raised voice and a bad word passes a ‘reasonable person’ test for having created hostile workplace.
For the first part, I see your point to a degree, but, for conferences in particular, if I search the hashtag that it is representing the conference. I wouldn’t expect conference related information to come up, not this type of post.
Regarding your second point. Well, I uncharacteristically revealed my personal history above and your response is to trivialize it by comparing it to not liking kittens. Thanks for giving an example of the mindset that I have been having to combat when I try to break through on the experiences I endured. And people wonder why I don’t like to talk about my personal life. Kind of an odd tact to take from someone who is against harassment.
Cursing in the workplace is not nor has ever been a rare occurrence. And this conference is certainly not a formal workplace either. But
at work it depends on your boss and others around you. Many of us aren’t so fortunate to maintain such delicate flower hyper sensitivity. Moreover, the younger the workforce, the more lax things tend to be when it comes to language so I think we’d better start getting used to a colorful outburst every now and then. And when it comes to Twitter, well there’s profane and then there’s profane. This just wasn’t it.
I don’t understand how it is possible in this social-media-verse to somehow avoid being exposed to language since it is such a wild world out there with all the racism, the sexism, the bigotry and the general uncivilized rudeness (whether or not “profane”). In this case it might have been a tad much
but not enough to lose any sleep over nor make a federal case. I tend to save getting appalled for the things people say that are truly appalling (and there’s no shortage of it).
There are a number of well-regarded media sites that will allow an occasional f-bomb in their editorials. I would say that they are
considerably more established than this one, and even they can abide by a little well-placed profanity every now and then. And certainly not getting all up in arms about an external tweet that has nothing to do with them.
Speaking of an overarching contradiction (to say the least) who’s to say that this entire conversation isn’t in the spectrum of bullying? Calling someone out, literally. Is saying “You are the problem” to someone not a personal attack? A site moderator has more power than anyone else on their site by definition, so yes these forceful rebukes of commenters is a form of throwing one’s weight around.
A better way to have presented this would be to report on the conversation (which speaks for itself) and leave the judgment out of it.
So … its OK to use profanity – and shout it via social media- because everyone else does and everyone just needs to accept it? Then why do we even bother talking about harassment – people should just learn to live with it instead of trying to eliminate it?
Keith,
If you don’t see the difference between an undiplomatic tweet, and literally, physically, shouting at someone at their desk in their office, then I don’t know how to explain it to you.
If you don’t see the difference between an undiplomatic tweet, and physically grabbing your students’ thighs and buttocks against their will — it’s all just ‘harrassment’ — then I don’t know how to explain it to you.
On that latter point, re-read your last sentence. If that’s really how you want to phrase it, then in the context of the AAS discussions, how is one supposed to read your meaning as anything but, “If we won’t make Barringer tweet politely, we shouldn’t try to stop Marcy from grabbing his students’ breasts either”. I’m certain you don’t mean that, but it’s the position you’re digging towards.
Well, maybe you work somewhere else, but I’ve never had anyone yell BACK THE F*** OFF in any workplace I’ve been.
Here we go: yet another lecture by someone who gets all tough and such while hiding behind a fake screen name (BTW, they don’t have last names on your planet?) Yet would probably never say things like this with full attribution. You’re right. I have zero real life experiences – none whatsoever – and yet you are the interpersonal relationship expert. Yawn.
Unfair, Keith. Argue your points. A person’s use of pseudonyms-and the reasons for it- have been discussed here many times and in some cases account for the power and reach of your blog. Criticizing a screen name is close to ad hominem.
Anybody who frequents your blog long enough figures out-and quickly- who is serious and who talks out of–well, who’s a troll. Astro is in the first category.
Getting personal for a second (and I really don’t want to discuss the details more): As a kid I was subject to a lot of verbal abuse (more than I’ve come to understand was normal). I made it through and I’m fine now (well, other parts of me aren’t fine, but that’s for a different post ;), but part of why I am fine is that I know I can work in a safe environment where I know people aren’t going to run around saying “BACK THE F*** OFF.” I cringe when I see and hear that to the point of leaving the room. It is physically painful.
Yes, we are “all a grown ups here” (an argument I’ve heard so many times in response to my issues that I rarely talk about my experiences). But, like it or not, if someone acted like that in my workplace to another person regardless of reason, I would find it to be hostile and extremely uncomfortable.
Does my situation raise to level of what women experience? Absolutely not, which is I why I have at my work tried very hard as an employee and as a manager to do what I can to improve the situation for women. All of which I have managed to do without having to yell “BACK THE F*** OFF” at anyone or call people “a**holes” on the Internet. Still, I’m certain I haven’t done enough and try every day to improve. (While at the same time realizing I don’t need to be John Wayne coming in to protect the little ladies).
However, even if my issue is arguably lesser than what women face, I don’t think that means I should have to accept a hostile workplace given there are more constructive methods to handle this problem. True, this was on Twitter, which is just a public forum, but Twitter has been become part of the workplace for many people. And if you Tweet a conference hashtag that is also part of the workplace.
Revising and extending my remarks: anirprof makes a good point below. The “regardless of reason” phrase above is an overstatement. If that’s what it took to get someone to stop doing something wrong in real-time, clearly that overrides any concern of professional decorum at that to point.
P. S. Not that Keith can’t defend himself, but you should go over more of his posts. He’s soundly on your side.
Keith, is there a way you can photoshop a screen over the bad words in the tweet? We all know what is there.
Why?
I hope swearing could be useful in fending off sexual harassment, but in reality such words usually encourage even worse behavior. Swearing only means you are angry and lost the ability to think clearly to take the right action. Is this the best some highly educated astronomers can come up with? What a shame…