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Commercialization

Israel-Led Team Leading Google Lunar X Prize Race?

By Keith Cowing
NASA Watch
February 12, 2013
Filed under ,

Israeli space cadets say moon shot is no fantasy, Times of Israel
“SpaceIL is a nonprofit foundation, and is relying on donations to get into space, explained Margalit. So far, about $20 million of the $30 million needed to run the project has been raised. On SpaceIL’s Facebook page, visitors are encouraged to make a donation in multiples of “chai” — 18 shekels or dollars. The organization does not plan on keeping the GoogleX prize if it does win, stated Winetraub; instead, it will channel that money back into science education, and conduct more programs to expose more kids to the importance of space travel and research.”
Team SpaceIL

NASA Watch founder, Explorers Club Fellow, ex-NASA, Away Teams, Journalist, Space & Astrobiology, Lapsed climber.

24 responses to “Israel-Led Team Leading Google Lunar X Prize Race?”

  1. Denniswingo says:
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    Wish em all the best of luck!

  2. Tim Blaxland says:
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    Good luck to them too. But why “leading”? Team Stellar, for one, are planning on getting there in 2014 compared to 2015 for SpaceIL, and I hear Team Stellar’s finances are in reasonable shape too.

    (Marc here: I removed the dead link)

    • Denniswingo says:
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      Any team that does not have a launch contract in place by June of this year has little likelyhood of getting there….

  3. chriswilson68 says:
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    They say they got their first major corporate sponsor on Monday.  And then they also say they have $20 million of the $30 million they need already.

    That sounds pretty fishy to me.  There’s no mention of how much their first sponsor is actually ponying up.  I can’t find anything on the SpaceIL web site that discusses the financing they’ve gotten — how much, where it came from, etc. in any concrete terms.

    Non-profit organizations that actually do have financing tend to trumpet the details.  They tend to list the exact amount they’ve raised, down to the penny.  They tend to give a breakdown of how much was individual supporters, etc.

    A lack of such transparency tends to happen with organizations that are making misleading statements about their finances.  Maybe they have soft promises or conditional loans for some of the $20 million.  Maybe they’re counting in-kind technical help from individuals and companies.  Maybe they’re even counting the $20 million from winning the Google prize.  Who knows?  As long as SpaceIL hides the details, we won’t know.

    The whole web site is also lacking on any details of concrete technical progress or contracts signed with suppliers.  On their “team” page, they list managers, PR, and HR people.  They don’t list a single engineering position that has been filled.  The closest they have to a technical position on the list is CTO — a position which is filled by an Electrical Engineering masters student.

    With a real engineering organization with $20 million in financing, I’d expect to see a jobs page advertising a dozen or more engineering positions.  The SpaceIL web site does have a page that looks like it has some job postings — except that at the bottom of the page it says “Please note: These are not paid positions.”

    Really?  They have $20 million in the bank, and they need engineering positions filled, but they don’t want to pay anyone to work for them?

    No way.  They’re lying about that $20 million.

    • NASAwatch Watcher says:
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      Very realistic perspectives that are likely closer to the truth than the article being promoted purveys.

      But in fairness to SpaceIL, NASAWatch is promoting a comment made by a journalist without any apparent fact checking. As you point out, there is no press release, direct quote or declaration anywhere on the SpaceIL website about the state of their financing. So there is no evidence that SpaceIL has made any misleading statements about their financing.SpaceIL deserves the attention it is getting.. the founders are an awesome group of young people with national pride and a passionate vision of of putting the Israeli flag on the Moon. Some are graduates of International Space University and Singularity University. Most recently they teamed with Odyssey Moon, the first competitive team in the Google Lunar X PRIZE, a creation of International Space University & Singularity University co-founder Bob Richards, who also founded another leading competitor, Moon Express… so there are many interconnections at play with common inspirations and goals.We all know that you can’t believe everything you read, especially these days where responsible journalism is hard to find.The odd thing is that NASAWatch has promoted the comments of a journalist so vigorously, with no clear foundations in quotes or press releases coming from the team itself, and has used the un-fact-checked comment in social networking to denigrate the efforts of other teams in the competition, specifically Moon Express…. a company NASAWatch appears to have issues with for unknown reasons.There seems to be a personal agenda at play here that victimises innocents and suggests a lack of objectivity and integrity in NASAWatch journalism.Promote and cheer SpaceIL, absolutely, and all other Google Lunar X PRIZE teams that are expending resources and are passionate about doing something inspiring and bold, but don’t use facts or rumors to suggest one team’s good fortunes are another’s failure. That’s just wrong.

      • Marc Boucher says:
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        I think you missed the point. The point was, is the Israeli team the perceived leading competitor at this point, based on the funding they say they have?

        And FYI all NASA Watch did was make note of the article and post a quote from the writer. How you interpret that as an attack is beyond me.

        With respect to Moon Express, they tweeted this “.NASAWatch We’re saying @TeamSpaceIL is AWESOME & we hope there is a $20M donation, but you can’t believe everything journalists say #GLXP

        They are the ones who were questioning their competitors funding, not NASA Watch. And they even got that wrong. The article states “So far, about $20 million of the $30 million needed to run the project has been raised.” The article never states there was a $20 million donation.

        So with respect to fact checking, please check your facts before commenting.

      • kcowing says:
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        WRT “without any apparent fact checking” – by whom – the author of the original article? How do you know?  Did you check to see if they  checked?

        I just love it when people with fabricated names sling accusations – but are afraid to identify themselves. Given that you repeat things that @Moon_Ex tweeted, I have my suspicions as to who you are … So … from now on you need to use your real name when posting. Have a nice day.

      • chriswilson68 says:
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        It’s true that the author of the Times of Israel article could have made a mistake or exaggeration in stating that they have raised $20 million.

        But the thing is that the SpaceIL web site has an “In The Media” link in the lower left of their home page.  Click on that and you’ll see a list of links to news articles.  The very first one is that Times of Israel article.

        If the Times of Israel article is grossly misrepresenting the SpaceIL funding situation, why is SpaceIL prominently featuring the article on their own site without any comment about inaccuracies in it?  Letting an inaccuracy go uncorrected, and promoting that inaccuracy, is equivalent to lying.

        On a related note, the Times of Israel article is definitely inaccurate about another important detail involving money.  The article says of the Google Lunar X Prize that it “promises to award $30 million to a team that can land an unmanned, robotic craft on the moon.”  That is, of course, not true.  It’s $20 million to the winner, with the other $10 million to the runner up and for some bonus conditions.  It’s not possible for a single team to get the whole $30 million.

        • kcowing says:
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          Maybe SpaceIL doesn’t spend a lot of time updating their website/  Why don’t you contact them and ask about this story.

    • Steve Whitfield says:
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      Chris,

      I think we have to be careful about assigning typical North American and European business practices to Middle East countries.  Israel is a physically small nation surrounded (literally) by traditional enemies.  They are non-transparent about a lot of things out of self defense.  In their situation, paranoia is probably a very good first line of defense.  It worked well for Russia for hundreds of years.

      Steve

      • chriswilson68 says:
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        Steve,

        You have a point — just because SpaceIL isn’t transparent about their funding doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t have it.  It just makes it seem less likely to me.

        The part that really seems impossible to me is that they would have $20 million in the bank, and a page on their web site listing several engineering jobs they need done, but with a notice that they are all volunteer positions and they’re not going to pay anyone to do them.  That just doesn’t add up.  No matter how paranoid you are, if you have engineering work that needs done, and lots of money, you’re going to tell candidates you’ll pay them to do the work.

                –Chris

        • kcowing says:
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          Maybe they have a lazy webmaster. It happens.  Until I pointed it out, MoonEx still had a blog posting on their website asking for ideas to remodel a building they decided not to rent months ago …

          • Steve Whitfield says:
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            Goo point.  Or perhaps the web master is off sick and they have no one to substitute for him/her.  Or maybe the web master simply isn’t getting the updated material to post from overworked people.  What ever the reason, across the web the problem of web sites not being properly maintained, and even completely ignored, is heading for epidemic status.  I guess that’s part of the price we pay for the freedom of having an end-to-end web system.

        • Steve Whitfield says:
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          Chris,

          I looked at it from the other end — a total requirement of only $30 million?  If you add up the material costs (even though it’s so small), the various aspects that they can’t do themselves and have to contract out (like launch/range safety and perhaps specialty manufacturing of hardware and electronics), and things like facilities, utilities, fuel, insurance, any design licencing, etc., then $30M probably disappears pretty quickly, so they’d better be looking for volunteers and handouts (and the national pride aspect may well get them the help they need).  I suspect that they simply may have been too optimistic in the early stages.

          Steve

          • chriswilson68 says:
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            Steve,

            That’s a reasonable point that they might have significant expenses outside of engineering.

            But the engineering has to get done.  Either they just hand off the whole engineering and manufacturing job to someone else (perhaps not a bad idea) or they have to have a significant engineering team themselves.  There is no indication that they intend to hand the whole job over to someone else.  In fact, the “jobs” page on their site indicates they want to do engineering work in-house — they just refuse to pay for it.

            If they really do have $20 million in the bank and they think it’s wise to spend none of it on engineering and hope that volunteers will get the job done, they are extremely incompetent.

            I remember during the original X Prize competition there were a number of teams that were trying to win with mostly volunteer work.  They were asking for volunteers because they didn’t have money, and none of them ever amounted to anything.  I’ve never heard of a team flush with cash that decided not to use that huge advantage.

            The one team that actually had real money ($30 million, from Paul Allen), used that money on a sizable team of professional engineers (at Scaled) and managed to pay both the engineering salaries and all the other costs for $30 million — and produce a much, much larger pair of vehicles than SpaceIL is planning.  And that team won the prize by doing that.

            The only significant additional cost SpaceIL has is the launch cost.  They’ve said that they plan to be a secondary payload on some other launch.  Given that their whole vehicle is supposed to be 120 kg, it’s hard to imagine their launch costs would be more than a few million.  That leaves them at least $15 million to develop and build their vehicle.

          • Steve Whitfield says:
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            Chris,

            I see what you’re saying.  I guess I’m just used to everything costing more than the original plans.

            Given that this is Israeli, I half suspect that they’re getting some military help in the form of free manpower and perhaps technology, which, of course, they could never admit to on their web site without starting all kinds of problems.  Israelis are really big on the national pride thing, even though they’re usually pretty quiet about it.

            BTW, as you probably know, Rutan and Allen spent more than the $10M prize and even the $30M from Allen to design, build and fly their X-Prize entry.  For them it wasn’t about winning the PRIZE, but rather about WINNING the prize.  Their prime motivation (they said) was succeeding in doing something important for the future rather than winning the money (it must be nice).  So I have to ask myself, are other entrants in subsequent contests similarly motivated by achieving progress in space rather than, or as well as, winning the prize money and the prestige that goes with it?

            When you talk of engineering for the program the way you do, then I’m thinking that you’re assuming that no new or unproven technologies are being used.  I made allowance for using some, which, on reflection, is probably not the case, so I overestimated there.

            I still wonder about manufacturing and testing.  Soldering your own electronics and bending your own metal are one thing, but precision machining things like separation pyros and vein-cooled rocket nozzles (if any of these things are being used) is something you don’t do in your buddy’s garage.  If such things are not being used, then once again I’ve overestimated.

            I’m guessing they won’t be contracting for any wind tunnel tests for a Moon landing, but they do need to do repeated tests of the ascent and landing engine, which won’t be cheap, even though their machine is pretty small.

            Even without including the launch, I can see $30M getting eaten up pretty quickly for materials, outside manufacturing, and testing, so they’re clearly going to be absolutely dependent on volunteer workers.  But, you know, I suspect that they won’t have much trouble getting the volunteers, just perhaps with getting volunteers (at the right time) who have the necessary skills and knowledge.

            But I’m seeing it more from your perspective now.  Putting it all on the line with the assumption that they will get volunteers of the necessary type is one hell of a risk, especially considering the meager remaining time frame.  It seems more optimistic and less professional than what is required to succeed, let alone win the prize.

            Personally, I have no reason to disbelieve that they have (or had?) $20M in the bank, but you’ve convinced me that it does raise questions.  If indeed they are not being absolutely forthcoming about the money situation, what do you think their actual motivation for that might be?

            I wonder how much of all this simply comes down to the fact that these guys are amateurs trying to work on the leading edge rather than an experienced aerospace company.

            Thanks for a good discussion Chris.  I’m not convinced there’s anything deliberately misleading in all this, but I’m certainly less complacent now that all is going according to plan.

            Steve

          • chriswilson68 says:
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            Steve,

            I’ve enjoyed the discussion, and, as usual, you make good points.  We’ll see over the next three years what happens.  If they win the prize, I’ll be surprised, but happy to see I was wrong.  If we don’t see anything more than talk from them, we’ll know they probably didn’t really get that financing.

          • AdamT1976 says:
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            Regarding funding, check this video, it’s mostly in Hebrew but the interesting parts are in English at 4:30 and especially at 13:10.
            This gives you a glimpse on one of their donors:
            http://www.mako.co.il/news-

          • Joe says:
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            I speak Hebrew fluently. A fascinating article. Morris Kahn is a certainly a billionaire and could finance the entire thing himself. He is extremely connected in Israel and would probably have no problem securing the funding from various Israeli billionaires, and even American’s like Sheldon Adelson who could easily fund the whole thing. Most of the segment dealt with how they have secured the full backing of Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), the country’s largest aerospace company, as well as the major science-based academic institutions in the country, including the Universities. They have a long way to go, but are clearly one of the most credible teams in the race given the financial backing and scientific community they can tap in to. But non of that guarantees anything.

    • kcowing says:
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      Have you actually contacted the individuals you so obviously distrust?  If not, then you are just guessing.

      • chriswilson68 says:
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        Well, I was expressing my opinion based on the publicly-available evidence I could find.  I described the evidence and why it led me to those conclusions.  Others are free to agree or disagree with my assessment.  The same evidence is there for anyone else to look at, and assess differently.

        • kcowing says:
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          OK then I guess to be safe we have to doubt the accuracy of any article – about any GLXP competitor – anywhere.

  4. bobhudson54 says:
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    Where’s the U.S. in all of this? Why hasn’t any of our companies took up this challenge? Where’s the initiative the good Ole U.S. is suppose to have? Why are we sitting on our laurels while others have the initiative to go forward with a dynamic goal that’s feasible? It’s too many questions and not enough answers,too much empathy and apathy in our workforce.We’re woosing out beyond belief.  

    • chriswilson68 says:
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      Where’s the U.S.?  SpaceX is busy bringing the costs of launch down dramatically for everyone, flying real hardware to orbit, and building the world’s largest launcher.  Virgin Galactic is busy doing extensive flight testing in advance to making commercial passenger service to space safe and affordable.  Blue Origin is busy developing a radically different launch concept that has the potential to drastically reduce costs of access to space if it pans out.  Sierra Nevada is busy building the next generation of winged reusable spacecraft for crew transport to and from low Earth orbit.  Boeing is busy developing its own next-generation capsule for crew transport.  ULA is busy with the very demanding business of regularly putting large payloads into orbit with very high reliability.

      There are organizations all around the world doing exciting things.  If a non-US organizations wins the Google Lunar X Prize, we should celebrate.  We have no need to be insecure about the U.S. ability to innovate and execute in space just because other countries share some of that.