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Commercialization

SpaceX and Bigelow Sign Falcon/Dragon/Habitat Deal

By Keith Cowing
NASA Watch
May 10, 2012
Filed under , , , ,

SpaceX and Bigelow Aerospace Join Forces to Offer Crewed Missions to Private Space Stations
“Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) and Bigelow Aerospace (BA) have agreed to conduct a joint marketing effort focused on international customers. The two companies will offer rides on SpaceX’s Dragon spacecraft, using the Falcon launch vehicle to carry passengers to Bigelow habitats orbiting the earth.”

NASA Watch founder, Explorers Club Fellow, ex-NASA, Away Teams, Journalist, Space & Astrobiology, Lapsed climber.

43 responses to “SpaceX and Bigelow Sign Falcon/Dragon/Habitat Deal”

  1. don says:
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    Congrats to both companies. America is about to capture and dominate a new sector in the space economy.

    • Ralphy999 says:
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      In my opinion there is no America to it. If you read the release above, these are corporations who want to serve the international market. Come one, come all. If there are ITAR restrictions there could also be problems. After all, some of the gear could have been originally designed and developed under US government contract (for all I know).

      I just don’t see any patriotic connection to corporate development. They can outsource a lot of this stuff if they want to and probaly will if gets down to dollars and cents. Or launch from a third world country. No patriotism to it. Start making the stuff in China (again, subject to ITAR).

      I’ve seen it happen to automobiles and computers.    

      • Steve Whitfield says:
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        Ralphy,

        I can’t really envision either company outsourcing anything to China or any other country, except possibly some launch site personnel.  Since they are selling a service/leasing a product, rather than outright selling a product, I don’t see how ITAR can object.  What I wonder about is are “international” customers to be launched from the US or elsewhere?  If launching elsewhere, I think that compliance with the regulatory requirements of the various other countries might be their biggest problem.

        Steve

  2. npng says:
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    Good move Bob and Gwynne.

  3. MattZip says:
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    A great day for private space – a commercial launch provider will be sending paying passengers to a commercial orbiting station.  Hey, not to bring up a sore subject, but what should SpaceX and Bigelow expect ITAR-wise?

  4. newpapyrus says:
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    With only four or five manned missions to the ISS from the US side annually for perhaps three or more manned spaceflight companies: ULA, Space X, and ATK/Astrium, etc., space tourism is the only way this many commercial manned spaceflight companies can be economically sustained.

    Marcel F. Williams

    • Anonymous says:
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      Don’t be surprised if people like Bigelow find other uses for their habitats than tourism. The uses to which the ISS can be put are fairly rigidly controlled, and the planners involved are sometimes less than imaginative. Once there are a few commercial habitats in LEO, we should begin to see a little more creativity.

      • don says:
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        I can’t wait for reality TV to hit LEO .. like ‘UFO Hunters’. smiles

        “our intrepid ufo hunters are looking out the window and .. WHAT WAS THAT?”

        “oh .. nevermind .. just some frozen pee from the space shuttle.

        Tune in next week when …..

    • don says:
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      Bigelow is not concerned about space tourism at all. He has stated as much REPEATEDLY in just about every public speaking event in the last 5 years. What does he have to do.. paste a sticky note on his forehead before you FINALLY get the message?

      He is going after 2nd and 3rd tier countries who have a big enough checkbook and the desire to have a full up, crewed LEO space program. He is signing MOU’s with other countries, not individuals.

    • Andrew Gasser says:
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      I would never speak for Bigelow Aerospace… but I will speak for myself and state what Bigelow Aerospace has conveyed to me –

      Bigelow habs are designed for science first and foremost.  Nations that wish to have a “space station” at a fraction of about 1/100th of the ISS may find that a BA-330 in LEO might be a possibility.  
      People who say the Bigelow economic model depend on tourism don’t know what they speak of. The Bigelow economic model relies on multiple paths for humans to garner access to Bigelow habs.  BA-330s sitting in Vegas do not generate profit.  BA-330s in orbits of different inclinations do.

      This is a win/win/win situation.Bigelow wins – they can start planning.
      SpaceX wins – they have another customer for human transport and potentially cargo.
      The American Taxpayer wins – we find out we don’t need $100 billion and 20 years do build something in space.  Bonus – just how much do we spend on ISS and SLS annually?

      Respectfully,
      Andrew Gasser
      TEA Party in Space

  5. Stuart J. Gray says:
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    I am curious how this will work out considering the export controls (ITAR) and restrictions. I cannot allow foreign nationals to even LOOK at space flight hardware, yet SpaceX & Bigelow want to let them RIDE ON and LIVE IN U.S. made spaceflight hardware.
    I assume that Bigelow & SpaceX needs to submit a request to “export” prior to launching any hardware.

  6. DTARS says:
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    After talking about agriculture habitates in another thread and Marcel saying how sls could loft a space station in one launch. I was thinking why doesn’t mr. Bigelow design a hab size thats just right for a falcon heavy. Inflatable in one launch at 50 tons and the service docking port in next. Max out the falcon heavy.

    Don’t forget to square up the hab to a cube or rectangle for more flexible interior upfitting designs Mr. Bigelow.

    Looks like a falcon heavy can launch a ba 330 in two launches. I was thinking of the larger one. Do Spacex and Bigelow plan on using falcon heavy as their booster to build ba 330 habs? The article doesn’t say.

    • Anonymous says:
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      Don’t be surprised if Musk and Bigelow haven’t already begun planning this. Bigelow is nothing if not pragmatic and he has been awaiting an ROI on his inflatables for some time. Falcon Heavy gives him a way to start generating some cash. An inflatable designed to match the Heavy’s lift capability is probably already advanced.
      Actually, this agreement was visible a long way off. As soon as Musk announced the Heavy Bigelow became a logical customer for habitat launches, and both men knew it before the Heavy went public. Bet on it.

    • Stuart J. Gray says:
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       If planetary resources thinks they can make $$ by providing water to orbital customers, then shouldn’t Bigelow be able to provide food to the ISS? He could put a large semi-transparent inflatable in a ISS trailing orbit and grow veggies. Then each time a Dragon makes a run to the station, it could unload, shuttle over to the “salad bar” drop off water & nutrients (ISS waste maybe?) and bring back lunch before returning to Earth 😉

      • DTARS says:
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        That’s a great idea but we need to study that.That should take about 5 years then after you grow your space veggies NASA safety core will require all food be tested/FDA approved before any ISS astronauts eat. humm food testing phase about ten years.

        NASA

        Maybe better if your call the other national Bigelow/Spacex space stations if you want to market your agri products.

      • Steve Whitfield says:
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        Stuart,

        Now that would be progress!  Great idea.

        Steve

      • DTARS says:
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        Does anyone know the real cost to feed astronauts on ISS??

        If a food company or university bought a greenhouse 330 for education and space agriculture research. Wouldn’t it just make sense for ISS to want to be a customer to drive down food cost.
        Tinker had suggested Spacex loading a Bigelow hab on the first falcon heavy test launch. well??????  Why not??? Elon wanted to grow stuff on mars. Why not get this idea legs and do it!!!  Now!!!!

        The first test Bigelow  330 hab should be a greenhouse!

        Later you could add more 330s kitchen, rooms, students traveling to space, and tourists to help with cost.

        Kinda have a devons island research station in Leo. That’s doing things, selling food, tourism  and science. 

        Lol sounds like ISS only 1/100th the cost and working on breaking even lol 

        Keith talked about doing a mars trip simulation on ISS soon why not mix the first ISS agriculture rubber room with that project???? Float it in orbit behind as Stewart said

        So much we can dooo!!!

        Cancel SLS and Orion

        Let’s start to settle space now!!!

    • don says:
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      the BA 330:

      “It can be relatively light for its size, weighting between 20,000 kilograms (45,000 lb) and 23,000 kilograms (50,000 lb), making it easier to place large amounts of volume in orbit”

      The BA 330 maxes out at 25 tons. the Falcon heavy could launch them two at a time.

      • DocM says:
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         The issue isn’t mass but length – a BA-330 is 45′ long, and the 5 meter fairing isn’t.  Time for a stretch.

    • John Gardi says:
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       DTARS:

      The Falcon Heavy could launch a Bigelow 330, a propulsion module and a docking hub in one launch. I also still like the idea of leaving behind the Dragon trunks as power and storage modules (for a price :D) then reentering on battery power in a few hours. Waste not…

      tinker

      • DTARS says:
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        Tinker help me in the bolden thread. I brought up your 7 core booster.

      • DTARS says:
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        Keith Cowing/ Elon Musk Dragon Trunk Modular Greenhouse Project

        Tinker 
        Dragon trunks left at ISS as storage? 

        How little weight could you add to turn a dragon trunk left for storage into a mini robot greenhouse project.  

        Design the trunks to mate together so you have a partitioned volume that keeps growing.(each partition has different  environments to maximize yield.)

        You mix some windows with lights using dragon trunks solar cells.

        Send your hydroponic garden up there already assembled on the ground. 
        It doesn’t have to have humans In it. It’s for bots only. Have little fan hover flying bots that tend the crops and plug themselves in for charges. The bot puts the produce in a bin bot for pickup.

        The bin bot would shuttle food to and from ISS 
        It’s small enough to fly through the ISS airlock.

        With each dragon cargo flight your green house grows.

        Maybe you let it grow 6 trunks lengths. Lol maybe 60 🙂 1 or 2 trunks could be delivery trucks with methane rocket engines lol.
        (that’s about as dumb as running your car on corn oil on a planet of 7 million)

        One of your trunks has draco’s and fuel so you soon have a veggie truck/trunk farm lol

        If other Bigelow habs are nearby   
        Veggie trunk/greenhouse could deliver fresh produce to different customers.

        Now that’s the kind of fuel depot me and Clem are talkin about lol.

        Keith’s arctic green house, only at ISS plus flying bots 🙂

        Elon would love it. He started Spacex because he wanted to have a little robot green house on Mars.

        Bigelow teaming with Spacex will lead to great things. It’s not like we all didn’t know this would happen ages back.

        Mr. Bigelow turned away from Spacex after their more dramatic test flights. But I bet he always wanted to work with Elon Plus Robert knows space flight must be cheaper for his balloons to have any chance. Is Boeing trying to reduce the cost of space flight???

        Joe Q

        Lol guess when the plants die your bot prunes them and places them in the vacuum shredder mulcher to be recycled.

        Cancel SLS and Orion we need that money to settle Space!!!!!!!!!

        News flash

        5 sections of ISS’s  dragon trunk green house is to be boosted to mars with the first human mars explorers to help feed them for the long round trip.

        News flash

        Three sections of ISS Dragon trunk greenhouse to be mated with dragon lander to softly land food source near lunar  water mining Bigelow outpost.

        Parallel lines

        Spacex is about fly to ISS and burn up their first dragon trunk.
        Let’s not continue this wasteful practice. Isn’t this the time to start putting just a little money in the right places and start building inner solar system infrastructure now??????

        Let’s start Settling space NOW!!!!

  7. CB says:
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    Answer to the export control questions:  http://www.economist.com/no

  8. CadetOne says:
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    I like it, but we shouldn’t read too much into this.

    Don’t forget that Bigelow and Lockheed hooked up earlier and planned to have human-rated Atlas Vs launching this year. And Bigelow teamed with Boeing for the CCDev program to build the CST-100.

    Still, I think SpaceX and Bigelow are a better cultural fit.

    • don says:
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      Bigelow stated that he did not want to put up a commercial operation until there were two domestic companies providing access to LEO. He does not want to pull a NASA and have a single string fault system in place where his entire operation would GRIND to a halt like what happens to America when NASA has a problem.

  9. John Gardi says:
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    Folks:

    Finally! I was wondering when those two fiercely invidjal (mis-spelling interntional) folks would make a pact, even if it’s just a marketing campaign at this point. Seemed like a marriage made in… space from the get-go, especially since Spacex announced the Falcon Heavy. I could see this leading to putting up a Bigelow hab on the inaugural Falcon Heavy flight though. Waste not…

    It’s yet another customer for Spacex to add to their quiver.  You could also read this as a message from Spacex to the ‘powers that be’ of their willingness, (ney, necessity) to ‘go it on their own’. If Spacex succeeds while NASA’s commercial crew program flounders… there.ll be hell to pay at the ballet box (Oops, forgot. Those folks may not be in office anymore by that time).

    tinker

  10. CadetOne says:
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    If Bigelow and CASIS start courting the same customers, will the government back down, or will it actively compete against the commercial space station?

    • Steve Whitfield says:
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      CadetOne,

      I think that largely depends on who you define as “the government.”  Either way, there’s bound to be a lot of pointless back-pedalling and finger pointing.

      Steve

  11. chriswilson68 says:
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    Nobody would be happier than me to see this work out.

    But unfortunately I haven’t seen any sign that Bigelow has signed up a single customer, even after years of trying, and even after launching two successful prototypes.

    I believe Bigelow could execute and SpaceX could execute, if there were a market.  There just doesn’t seem to yet be such a market at these prices — even though they’re far below what NASA has paid for a space station and access to it, they’re still too much for any customers to bite.

    And it doesn’t make sense for second- and third-tier national space programs.  After all, second-tier national space programs can’t go where nobody has gone before.  They do me-too programs for the prestige, not to do a service to our civilization.  They’re not going to get much prestige paying a private American company to take their astronauts into orbit.  They’re going to get negative prestige from that.

    • Spaceman says:
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      Couldn’t agree more!  I really want both of these companies to succeed — but in reality their track record makes me question their long term viability.  Once I see two F9 launches withing 6 months of each other, and realy customers lining up for Bigelow, then I’ll be more optimistic.

    • Steve Whitfield says:
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      second-tier national space programs can’t go where nobody has gone before

      Chris,

      I don’t see why not.  History is full of examples where one party invented or developed a new idea or capability and then someone else used it to create a new industry (and get rich).  I think there’s a lot that can be done inside an orbiting BA330 by countries, and even companies, who have no existing space capability of their own, but could afford to lease this package.  I’m thinking science, not tourism.  Space science is behind where it should be, whereas space tourism is still in the “not yet” category.  In fact, I think more of the former is required before the latter will come into being.

      Steve

  12. John Gardi says:
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    Folks:

    Imagine this. Spacex and Bigelow get their act together and start selling seats to orbit and ‘hang time’ at a BA330 to other countries cheaper than the Russians. Oops.

    Here’s something that ‘government space’ could have done decades ago… but didn’t.

    From twitter:

    “Elon Musk @elonmusk

    Landing gear of the mega thrust propulsive landing rocket done (next gen Falcon). First hops soon. http://img.ly/i5JQ

    tinker

    • Steve Whitfield says:
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      Tinker,

      I think that more than just the price is an issue here.  The dragon carries seven people — a pilot plus six passengers.  Neither the Russians nor anybody else can do that.

      Steve

  13. Stuart J. Gray says:
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     For ITAR restricted hardware, it doesn’t matter. If you don’t have an export license and it leaves the country you go to jail.

    • Steve Whitfield says:
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      Stuart,

      I don’t think that even ITAR would worry too much about people in a BA330 possibly taking it apart to reverse engineer it when their lives in space depend on it?  Dead men tell no secrets.

      One of the seven occupants of the Dragon is presumably a company pilot, and he’s not going to let anybody start lifting panels.

      Steve

      • Chris B says:
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        Every company in aerospace routinely and accidently breaks some portion of ITAR. Only small upstarts with political enemies get whacked.

  14. DTARS says:
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    Tinker
    A double post tricked me into deleting one which left me with none tinker left you one about dragon trunk greenhouses to save a buck.

  15. John Thomas says:
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    If they plan on doing this using their own funds with a sound business model and not trying to get government contracts, this is really great.  With the crewed Dragon waiting for government funding, it’s been really slow going.

    With just their own money (and those that help with funding), then you remove fickle government funding and the ups and downs of that.

  16. DTARS says:
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    Bigelow fuel depot project
     
    Not knowing anything about how you would design a fuel depot, I was wondering how easy it would be for Bigelow to make inflatable fuel depot tanks???? Is that possible or practical or just absurd???

    Couldn’t you fill two BA 330s with fuel instead of air???

    Isn’t all the docking nodes and propulsion bus all very similar to what you would need to build fuel depots?????? Just add fuel pumps and plumbing.

    Has Bigelow ever considered building inflatable fuel depots?????

    Tinker said a falcon heavy can lift a BA 330, docking nodes, and bus in one launch. 

    Doesn’t that mean you could launch a useful depot in two FH launches, or maybe design a smaller one that can be launched on one FH launch????

    Dragon trunk salvage beam

    In other threads I suggested Spacex putting up a space beam to save salvaged dragon trunks and second stages. For future use.

    Well couldn’t  Spacex build such a beam out of dragon trunks?? If you could hook them together like tinker toys. And send them up with docking hatches If to heavy, hatch cut outs with hatch door and/or frames could be added later.

    You could dock empty falcon second stages with trunks to your dragon trunk (maybe pre plumbed) beam. So the whole thing is made of saved junk.

    Your solar arrays wired together should give you enough power to run your fuel pumps.

    I don’t know how strong a dragon trunk is but with that kind of diameter you should be able to make a pretty long strong docking beam should you be designing your dragon trunks with that in mind.

    Lol image bolting 10 diet pepsi cans end to end lol. That is pretty strong stuff lol

    Just trying to figure ways to create capablity with what we already have, to start building that inner solar system railroad sooner and cheaper, not later and costlier.

    News flash

    The second Bigelow station is about to dock to the end of Spacex salvage beam. On one side of the beam is a Bigelow duel 330 fuel depot, on the other end on the beam is a Bigelow duel habitat 330s. Lined up on the beam are dragon trunks/falcon second stages (all salvaged/saved from spacex’s ISS cots cargo and dragon rider program) some with dragons added ready for missions around Leo and beyond. The beam is used as a hallway for space travelers to get to and from their space vehicles as wells as housing for the plumbing the fuels lines for easy safe valve operation, inspection and repair.

     Our first commercial space port.

    Joe Q Tax payer

    Still wondering why we don’t get on with it now!!!!