As Trump takes over, NASA considers alternatives to its Orion spacecraft, Ars Technica
“NASA has initiated a process that raises questions about the future of its Orion spacecraft. So far, this procedural effort has flown largely under the radar, because it came in the form of a subtle Request for Information (RFI) that nominally seeks to extend NASA’s contract to acquire future Orion vehicles after Exploration Mission-2, which likely will fly sometime between 2021 and 2023. Nevertheless, three sources familiar with the RFI, who agreed to speak on the condition of anonymity, told Ars there is more to the request than a simple extension for Orion’s primary contractor, Lockheed Martin. Perhaps most radically, the RFI may even open the way for a competitor, such as Boeing or SpaceX, to substitute its own upgraded capsule for Orion in the mid-2020s.”
Keith’s note: There are a number of off ramps developing whereby NASA could shed Orion – even SLS. Stay tuned.
They both need to go the way of the dodo bird. Trump might do a great thing here by canx these turkeys.
Weird. What’s the purpose of SLS without Orion? What’s the vehicle launching Orion without SLS? How is there the possibility of choosing between them?
Maybe Orion is salvageable enough that they can launch it on another rocket? Use it as a technology testbed? Keep Orion program on life support instead of just throwing it away? Keep our European partners happy since they’re building the service module?
Only building two service modules as far as I am aware.
It may well be possible to launch Orion on another launcher.
The last several contract extensions for Orion had “off-ramps” to allow NASA to hand it over to another contractor if the LM proposal was unacceptable.
Even without the ultra-heavy LAS, I don’t think there’s any existing launcher than can get Orion into LEO.
Orion masses about 23 tons as I recall; the service module adds another 8 or 9 tons. Say 33 tons.
Falcon Heavy can loft 60 tons or so to GTO. Orion can neither go to Mars nor return if it did; but in any case FH couldn’t take it there (nominally 15 tons to Mars).
What is the purpose of Orion? Why can’t it be replace by a Dragon or CST for beyond Earth orbit? It is most definitely a waste. SLS may still be needed for Beyond Earth Orbit, or for that lunar orbit hab module, or for propellant depots, or for…..
Instead of adapting them just throw in with ITS for even greater cargo/crew capability than SLS/Orion could ever muster.
Launch habitats to multiple locations(cislunar phobos) and grow commercial crew
There is no need for Orion. It is totally redundant with Dragon and CST100. The idea of lunar orbiting ‘stations’ to take pictures is nonsense. If they wanted to develop a cislunar cruiser, that could go into high earth orbit, or geosynch, or to lunar trajectory destinations, and come back to LEO for refurbishment and refueling, that would make sense, but in that case you do not throw any part of it away. So that Orion once again is not needed. It makes no sense from the standpoint of duplication of effort, and it makes no sense from the standpoint of throwing away a multibillion dollar spacecraft every time its used for a couple months.
Richard. Shelby. That is all that needs to be said.
The Anti-SLS / Anto-Orion crowd is chasing after the the same old unicorn despite years of robust funding and excellent progress… you know… the money you people said would never be there.
Prediction: Nothing changes. Why? Because Richard Shelby is the first wall. Then there is Jeff Sessions (one of Trump’s first allies). Then there is Democrats and Republicans alike who have protected these programs for years.
I just need to ask, because it’s almost 2017 and it’s beyond parody at this point. At what point is the anti-SLS/Orion crowd going to actually put aside what they “wish” would happen and take a hard look at the legislative reality ahead and figure out what is going to happen. Shelby just won re-election. He’s “the guy” through 2022. Anyone care to place any money on the chances of him changing his mind on these programs? No?
I agree with what you say, and I agree we should be realistic. Nevertheless, when any government program expends tax dollars and fails to yield benefits to the nation as a whole that warrant the cost, it remains the duty of responsible citizens to continue to draw attention to the situation, even if such spending benefits our own communities or our own careers. Otherwise the entire budget will soon be consumed by such spending.
Sounds like the 60’s, dude.
trump should work with Senate and House leadership to get Shelby moved out of the way. If I was trying to make changes like killing SLS/Orion I would make sure that Shelby and the other barriers are off the authorization and appropriation committees. You cant make change if the pork shovelers are in charge.
To his credit (and I can’t believe I’m writing this) Mr. Trump has already made a step in this direction. One of his goals is to impose term limits on both the House and Senate. That would go a long way to limiting the power of individual, senior congressmen and their ability to dominate important committees.
It takes a majority not individuals. Term limits allow cash to buy elections which is being redirected to the top few percent and is not the solution. Changing congressional maps and citizen’s united, OTOH, would make congress competitive again-a change all could believe in.
An interesting proposal. Except that it would require…the approval of the House and Senate. Of course here in Florida the legislature did pass term limits. Now they just play musical chairs, changing districts every few years.
Never happen. Only a foolish president would spend initial capital on such a venture.
Or on space, for that matter.
Term limits, by the way, would simply hand over the keys to the government to an army of permanent bureaucrats as fresh congress critters arrived with no clue what the hell to do.
No way he dumps SLS. Trump doesn’t care that much about space policy (although maybe he would if he was invested in a space company), and dumping SLS would enrage Republicans in the South (particularly Shelby). He’ll take the easier road, keep SLS and Orion.
The most devastating casualty for spaceflight under a Trump administration will likely be in the fields of Earth Science, remote sensing, and basic research. I don’t know what to tell you about robotic interplanetary exploration.
I think a lot of people in the US look upon NASA as a part of the ‘infrastructure’. Infrastructure like roads, bridges, airports, industries,….In the distant past, a Republican President, Nixon, came to the conclusion that that piece of the infrastructure needed to be funded at the rate of a bit less than 1% of the Federal budget. It has declined a bit since then. So assuming Mr. Trump wants to keep that part of the infrastructure and he will have Congressional pressure to do so, then the smart thing is to have a Vision and work out a strategy to get to that Vision and make expeditious use of the funding the program is going to get. Redundant capsules certainly do not make sense. That is a waste of money. A ‘space station’ in moon orbit? Why? NASA has a long duration spaceship working today. NASA want to explore. The next step would be to develop a long duration spaceship and the infrastructure it requires to allow it to go exploring. Where would it explore? Beyond LEO is cislunar space. Beyond that is the inner solar system. There are some targets nearer and some that are farther. Mars probably does not make a lot of sense until we know we can go the distance and duration. I don’t think throwaway capsules are the way to do those missions, not at billions of dollars a pop. Landers do not make a lot of sense until you have a long duration habitat that can get you to those locations. Develop a vehicle based on the next generation of long duration systems that can cruise through cislunar space, and later to the inner solar system. The vehicle comes back for servicing, refurbishment and refueling. You don’t throw it away. If you do need a capsule for carrying crews up or down, there is one available now and a couple more in the near future, and a winged landing makes a lot of sense after one of these months long mission. Seems to me the Vision and the steps to reach it are pretty clear.