Shelby Goes Personal on Bolden

This canard is being raised by all the congress people who want money in their state/district. Currently China has not put a man in space for over a year and won't again for roughly that same time frame. They have a small space station planned some 5+ years from now. Russia sends Soyuz up every six months and the rest is commercial or military. They rarely go out of earth orbit any longer. The Indians just blew up their LH2 upper stage. And these are the countries that are going to be back on the moon in the not too distant future? These scare tactics are amazing and that anyone half intelligent would listen to them is pitiful. Obama's space plans within a limited budget are not going to destroy our country or cause us to lose our lead. In fact at the pace everyone else is going we are still going to be far in the lead. He does need to move forward more quickly on HLV and better define a goal but most of it makes good sense and fear mongering to get money in your state is the ultimate absurdity. And this from the same Republicans who criticize him daily for government red ink.

How true. I'll bet this is the same Senator who tried to preserve cold war military relics claiming that without F-22' Virginia Class Subs, and Zumwalt class destroyers we will all be on a prayer rung bowing to Mecca. These programs were scrapped and there has yet to be some guy dressed like Lawrence of Arabia kicking in my door.

rkoenn you have said in just a few sentences the most level-headed assessment of the situation yet posted to this web site. Buzz Aldrin once observed "people who think going to the moon again will be easy don't realize how hard it was the first time". And none of these other nations have the precursor development history that we did. Many are called, but few are chosen.

Thank you. But being a space geek, although age has fortunately made me wiser about it, I truly desire to see man move out into space. But it is extremely difficult and costly. However the way NASA manages its' programs these days those costs are probably minimally twice what is necessary. Personally I think we should go to the moon first. But we need a better methodology. Mars is such a serious trip using present day technologies I don't think it is realistically feasible. A minimal trip would be two years duration and that is an extremely long time to depend on any current space technology to be the required almost 100%. A very smart rocket scientist friend said he could not see a mission unless it had the propulsion capability to turn around and return home at almost any point in the mission. If the propulsion advances came that allowed for a 3 month trip duration then I would consider it reasonably feasible. It is frustrating to see us start a program that initially looked great, Constellation, only to see what happened happen. If money were easily available I think most administrations would set us on a outward course. But the reality is NASA has to be funded within constraints and congressmen like Shelby don't want that although such a project in another state would be on his hit list.

This canard is being raised by all the congress people who want money in their state/district.

But Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid recently told the American people if their senator wasn't smart enough to bring home the bacon he wasn't working hard enough.

Currently China has not put a man in space for over a year and won't again for roughly that same time frame. They have a small space station planned some 5+ years from now.

Will it be better to comment once they've advanced further down the road? I see your point though, we really should continue dancing with Iran on the question of their nuclear program a while longer before blowing it out of proportion.

Russia sends Soyuz up every six months and the rest is commercial or military. They rarely go out of earth orbit any longer.

Russia is planning with Mexico to build a space center on the Yucatan Peninsula similar to NASA. This should be interesting. Maybe our discarded NASA workers should look there for work in the future.

The Indians just blew up their LH2 upper stage. And these are the countries that are going to be back on the moon in the not too distant future?

Versus what? Us going back to the Moon? When do you see the United States back on the Moon? The Indians just flew multiple instruments (2 for NASA) that we're now just publishing findings on.

These scare tactics are amazing and that anyone half intelligent would listen to them is pitiful.

Any one who raises questions or points fingers is branded unfit to be involved in the process and those who listen to them are called pitiful. Standard practice when you can't defend your position.

Obama's space plans within a limited budget are not going to destroy our country or cause us to lose our lead. In fact at the pace everyone else is going we are still going to be far in the lead.

And you base this on what?

He does need to move forward more quickly on HLV and better define a goal but most of it makes good sense and fear mongering to get money in your state is the ultimate absurdity.

Isn't it obvious? They aren't in a hurry. President Obamas Science Adviser John P. Holdren just told graduate science students that we can't expect to be number one in everything indefinitely. And then he went on to inform them that the leveling of the playing field will help other countries and we will live in a safer world.

And this from the same Republicans who criticize him daily for government red ink.

Red ink hardly begins to describe the state of our country's financial situation.

What's your point? In a few months only the Russians will have HSF capability for at least 5 years (and possibly much more). Considering the US and Europe are now purchasing seats on Soyuz, and the China is already sending humans (albeit at a very low rate, yes, but still more than us), ... the answer is yes, they are closer.

Bottom line come Jan 1, 2011:

Only the Russians have reliable human spaceflight and are followed by China. The U.S., Europe, and Japan are, essentially, just commercial passengerson Soyuz.

The Russians can send automated cargo vehicles to ISS, and so can Europe with its ATV, ... the U.S. cannot.

The international commercial launch market is dominated by Ariane-5 (75%) and the rest by Russia. How many commercial satellites has ULA launched over the past decade?

...etc.

Not only are they closer to the Moon but they're also getting ready to kick our rears even in Earth orbit. In 1975 at least we had the potential/knowledge to restart Apollo and Saturn V production where as in 2010 we're begging the government to build external tanks to launch orbiters using some components built in 1969 (specifically Endeavour, which was built from spare parts) and an ever shrinking SRM fleet to the point we've had to cannibalize components form the SBRs on display at the KSC visitors center.

Yes, we're leaders. Perhaps that's why the Russians are ecstatic with the new plan. What would they know about launching humans to orbit?

The raw desperation by Sen. Shelby is embarrassing to his constituents, or it should be. It does serve a useful purpose though, removing any lingering doubt over how he perceives NASA: not a national asset formed to benefit the nation, but a simple transfer of payments program from the federal government to his contractor benefactors.

As for this constituent's opinion of our senior senator: 1) Go find a collection of quotes by Hunter S. Thompson about Hubert Humphrey. 2) Substitute Shelby's name for Humphrey's. 3) Enjoy.

Actually all your points are mainly much of the same, canards and scare tactics.

It will be at least 20 years before China flies a man around the moon. They don't have the capability and won't for quite some time. What they have done is impressive but they do not have the money either to make huge jumps and they do have what others have done to skip some baby steps. And what this has to do with Iran (a pariah nation) I don't exactly began to fathom. Typical right wing scare tactics.

When there is a Baikonur or KSC type facility in Mexico I will be long dead. The Russians are launching out of Guiana shortly, why Mexico? But they are more than happy to collect some bucks to help the Mexicans build a sounding rocket site.

In another post I stated my belief that moon should be first although relatively short duration missions to an asteroid, moon orbit, or Lagrange would be good for BEO testing. The Indians won't have a man in space in the next 10 years and the moon is a pie in the sky dream for them now, a manned mission that is.

I am branding no one unfit. All I am saying is that to fall for the rationale Shelby is pitching is ridiculous as I once again reiterate above. Shelby wants money in Huntsville and that is 90% of where he is coming from.

I believe the US will have a manned flight capability in the next 3-4 years. I also do not agree with everything in his plans. I am not sticking up for Obama here, I am saying these are not bad plans and that the POR is spending large amounts of money and will need even more on its' present course. The money is not there. And that our congressmen are hypocritical. Reid, Shelby, Kosmas, whomever. There is a big picture out there but it is always only the small they look at. I said I believe in a good program. But I also said it needs to be folded in realistically in light of everything else. And this was not meant politically as your response so much was. More as simply some common sense. I also respect the rest of the world. I love my country but to think we will be first, before, now, and always is absurd as well as arrogant.

It's likely gonna be like this all summer long....

China is where we were 40 years ago and progressing at a fraction of the pace we were then. They are no threat to our lead in space. Russia makes false claims every year about some new capability they are going to implement. They can hardly afford what they are doing now.

Opposition is valid if it's based on facts and not scare tactics built on outright lies and misinformation. Claims of losing our lead in space are not based on facts, but on scare tactics.

As for our financial situation, you can thank Reagan, Bush 41, and Bush 43 for that. The 20 budgets that they presided over account for 80% of this country's debt; $9.5 trillion of $12 trillion. Bush 43 alone saddled this country with $6.1 trillion in debt in only 8 years. These are facts based on real data from the US Treasury, not the lies repeated on talk radio and Fox News every day. Repeating a lie over and over does not make it truth.