Another NASA Discovery That NASA Isn't Telling You About
Keith’s note: Early this morning the @NewHorizons twitter posted “RT @AlanStern: Just announced: Pluto has new company– We’ve discovered a 5th moon using the Hubble Space Telescope!”. Why did the New Horizons PI get totally out ahead of everyone – his own team, NASA, STScI, even the IAU?
A NASA spacecraft, operated using NASA funds, was used to observe the target for another NASA mission, and discovered a new moon billions of miles away. Yet when I asked for the official press release early this morning, NASA PAO was unaware of this discovery. No press release has yet to be issued by NASA, STScI, JHU, or SwRI (I sent a request to all of them hours ago). Apparently NASA-funded discoveries can now be announced by anyone – in any fashion they so desire – without giving NASA a heads-up. Yet another example as to how NASA SMD PAO is in need of a tune up.
Keith’s 12:00 pm update: Scientists at SwRI even gave one publication advance notice of the discovery even though SwRI refuses to respond to a media request for a press release sent hours ago. Meanwhile, STScI posted a release at 11:30 am but have not even bothered to send it out to the media – posting at NASA.gov only occurred a short while ago – again with no media notice.
According to an email from J.D. Harrington at NASA PAO: “The Institute posted a news release, Goddard posted a web feature, and HQ put it on the NASA home page promptly at 11:30 a.m. after confirming the IAU circular announcing the finding was published. We didn’t want to get out in front of them. It’s also been heavily promoted on our social media forums…” The initial Tweet was posted at 3:39 am – but not by NASA. NASA waited 6 hours. Isn’t this just a just a little odd – that NASA has to go use an IAU circular to confirm things discovered with its own spacecraft? Who informed the IAU? Aren’t the people who make these discoveries using NASA hardware required to inform the agency of things like this? Guess not.
And of course if you try to actually read the IAU circular (IAUC 9253) about this discovery made using NASA funds – you can’t – at least not without a user name or password.
agreed – thats just daft
No one wants to cooperate or coordinate anymore.
Tis the basic problem of NASA today
Seems to be on the NASA front page now:Â http://www.nasa.gov/mission…
it took them 6 hours to get around to doing so.
Keith: don’t be so hard on NASA PAO. the existence of P5 was announced last night by the IAU’s CBAT service — before NASA/STScI, as such discoveries properly should be. — Kelly Beatty
No one told NASA. That is not kosher.
I’m used to getting breaking news from Twitter but with something like this is usually associated with an official announcement. I’m surprised that no press releases was issued.
The poor reporting really takes away from the excitement of the find, almost as if NASA doesn’t think it’s important. I wonder how long it would take the PAO to react if it was discovered that Earth had a new moon or the solar system had a new planet. Think that would be enough to wake them up? Don’t bet money on it.
Steve
The STScI press release has been in prep for days, but then the IAU circular was released unexpectedly early. We’ve all just been struggling to catch up. There was no conspiracy I assure you. All proper channels were followed.
It obvious from my email interactions with NASA PAO at HQ this morning that they knew nothing about this – until I asked them. You people – SETI, SwRI, JHU, STScI, NASA SMD, PAO – all need to coordinate vastly better instead of letting individuals get out in front of the news for their own purposes. Â SwRI has still refused to respond to my inquiry 7 hours ago. You are using tax dollars to play with all of these toys. The rest of us outside your inner circle expect – and deserve – a little discipline on the part of the people we pay to do these things.
PAO had seen the IAU circular draft that I circulated Monday. Everybody coordinated. PAO was merely waiting to confirm it had been _published_; read Harrington’s note more carefully. Part of the problem was that we were expecting a CBET and puzzling over why it was not yet out as of 10 am. Meanwhile it had come out as an IAUC instead, but we didn’t know that at the time. Once we confirmed the IAUC’s publication, the announcement went out.
NASA HQ PAO told me that they knew nothing about this when I called early this morning.
Also, please explain this tweet by the offical New Horizons Twitter account repeating a tweet by the mission’s PI at 3:39 am – hours before 10 am: “RT @AlanStern: Just announced: Pluto has new company– We’ve discovered a 5th moon using the Hubble Space Telescope!”
(1) Maybe PAO is not in the business of discussing stories they have not announced yet.
(2) I cannot speak for Alan Stern.
You are suggesting that we “surprised” PAO and STScI this morning by releasing an IAU circular about a moon without informing them. That’s not just false, it’s ridiculous. Do the press release materials look like they were thrown together in a few hours this morning? Here’s the timeline. I found the moon on Saturday. Major NASA officials knew on Sunday. We have been working with STScI on press release materials since first thing Monday morning. STScI does not release major stories to the press without PAO approval, which they obtained. This morning, the timing of the announcement got botched by a few hours. End of story.
I called NASA HQ PAO just after 8 am EDT this morning. The very senior person I spoke with (Bob Jacobs) knew nothing about this. Why don’t you call and ask for yourself.
Call SMD while you are at it.
As for Stern’s Tweet – it went out when it went out. The time tag is automated. It went out before the time you cited for the IAUC.
This whole process was sloppy and you are just not willing to admit that this was the case even when presented with facts.
Congratulations on the new little moon find.Â
Keith: You called the process sloppy. I used the word “botched” myself. I can live with that. Protocols were violated. I acknowledge the mistake.
However, you have gone far further. The front page of nasawatch still says that PAO had to find out about the discovery by going to the IAU circular. In reality, we had been working with STScI and NASA HQ on the press release since Monday morning. Maybe you should give your friend Bob another call and check that out.
I have always expected the information on NASAwatch to be accurate, and I am sure you won’t let me down.
I already told you what Bob Jacobs told me. Call Bob Jacobs yourself. Â I would never write something like this that I could not certify to be true. FWIW He is #2 at NASA PAO.
The posting I made was sent to me by NASA HQ PAO’s JD Harrington as an official reply. If you wish to dispute that official comment then you need to take it up with NASA PAO and stop suggesting that I have “gone far further” i.e. misrepresented facts. Indeed I resent this suggestion on your part.
I find the info posted by NASAWatch so much more accurrate than anywhere else!
It is not my job to certify that nasaview.com is accurate. It is yours. I have told you that you are spreading incorrect information. All you can offer in reply is “well, Bob didn’t know.” This is not incompatible with any of my statements. If you wanted the facts you could dig a little bit harder and get them. You’ve now taught me everything I need to know now about  nasawatch.com. Thanks for the education.
What the heck is is NASAview.com?  Go there and you get “Welcome to Noble County Public Court Records Search”. What on Earth are you trying to suggest? How can you use the word “honest” when you point to some legal website? Is SETI Institute going to lawyer up  on me? This will be interesting.
Dude, I know what I know. You want to dispute what the #2 person for all NASA PAO told me – then you dispute it with him. I grow tired of your insinuations. Â I think its FOIA time.
woo hoo mshowalter.
You must be an employee of JSC!!
nasaview.com is a typo. Sorry for the confusion. (Nasaview is the name of some software I use. It displays data.)Â
While this is yet another example of the generally inept NASA PAO staff, it is nothing new or unique to this generation of PAO at NASA. This behavior is decades old. However, let us keep this in perspective. We are not talking about a Nobel Prize discovery, it is the fifth moon of a minor planet. The scientific consequences are modest at best.
Didn’t we just go through the big to do, and agreed that Pluto is not a planet?
Planet, minor planet, or dwarf planet. What’s the diff.
Yes I know there is a diff, but for someone my age,
Pluto will always be a planet!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I ageeeeeeee lololol that was my point of the question 🙂
The important discoveries that really “light” up the imagination and the urge to explore are being held up by NASA on either a “need to know” or national security basis. This one took over 6 hours to be posted, usually they take over several months.NASA needs to adjust their public relations and make releases , such as these,immediately.Only then will public support start to be reinvigorated.Â
Only NASA could make space exploration boring.
I read the NASA press announcement in sci.space.news this morning.
I for one am fed up with constant bureaucracy
that exists with NASA and their PAO’s. It is a never ending story how it appears they can’t even conduct proper press releases in a timely manner.
DTARS, sorry for the overly casual use of the term “minor planet”, as Pluto is now known as a “dwarf planet” officially (just showing that we astrophysicists can be silly too). My point was that some people in this sting are making way too much over the communication phase lags in this story. If this were the discovery of life, intelligent or no, the fuss would be understandable. In this case, it is not.
I was kinda making fun of the big to do about whether or not you call Pluto a planet or not so no worries here 🙂 I’m wondering if we will get a good look at all these moons when we flyby, that is if they are still defined as moons then lolol
DTARS: We should get a peek at some, if not all of the moons. Someone more familiar with the instrumentation could comment on what they might expect to see. I don’t know if the orbit plane geometry of all of the moons is known, e.g., are they coplanar? The mission is a fly-by so there will be no second chances. A potential problem that is posed by the existence of moons is that if they were formed by a collision involving Pluto, there may well be a debris field comprised of smaller chunks orbiting Pluto that could be a hazard for the spacecraft.
I’m not looking for trouble, but I’m wondering about a name for it. Sticking with P5 might be a lot less bother than some of the naming battles of past discoveries, but it’s a little on the uninspiring side. Are we clear by now as to who actually has the responsibility/right to assign names?
Steve