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Orbital Fact Checking, FYI NASA Was Dead, And Oh Yes: Space Force

By Keith Cowing
NASA Watch
October 19, 2019
Filed under

Trump: “THIS IS THE FIRST TIME FOR A WOMAN OUTSIDE OF THE SPACE STATION. OUR FLIGHT ENGINEER, CHRISTINA COOK AND FLIGHT ENGINEER JESSICA MEIR. I JUST WANT TO CONGRATULATE YOU, WHAT YOU DO IS INCREDIBLE. SO, YOU’RE VERY BRAVE PEOPLE. I DON’T THINK I WANT TO DO IT. I MUST TELL YOU THAT. BUT YOU ARE AMAZING PEOPLE. THEY’RE CONDUCTING THE FIRST EVER FEMALE SPACE WALK TO REPLACE AN EXTERIOR PART OF THE SPACE STATION.”
Crew: “THANK YOU. FIRST OF ALL, WE DON’T WANT TO TAKE TOO MUCH CREDIT BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN — THERE HAVE BEEN MANY OTHER FEMALE SPACE WALKERS BEFORE US, THIS IS JUST THE FIRST TIME THERE’S BEEN TWO WOMEN OUTSIDE AT THE SAME TIME.”

Trump “ON ANOTHER LAND. PRESIDENT TRUMP: VERY EXCITING. EXCITING TIMES. THAT WHOLE PROGRAM WAS DEAD WHEN I TOOK IT OVER. WHEN WE CAME INTO OFFICE. AND SOMETHING THAT MIKE LIKED VERY MUCH, I LIKED VERY MUCH. AND YOU’RE BOTH DOING A FANTASTIC JOB, EVERYBODY IS DOING A FANTASTIC JOB. IT’S BEEN TOTALLY REINVIGORATED I THINK TO A LEVEL THAT’S IT’S NEVER BEEN. AND WE’RE ALSO THINKING IN TERMS OF DEFENSE. WE HAVE THE SPACE FORCE HAPPENING THAT’S GOING ALONG VERY NICELY AS YOU KNOW. WE’RE CREATING A NEW FORCE, IT’S CALLED THE SPACE FORCE…”

NASA Watch founder, Explorers Club Fellow, ex-NASA, Away Teams, Journalist, Space & Astrobiology, Lapsed climber.

39 responses to “Orbital Fact Checking, FYI NASA Was Dead, And Oh Yes: Space Force”

  1. Winner says:
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    Accuracy is not his strength.

  2. mike shupp says:
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    My take is this wasn’t actually a conversation between Trump and astronauts but intended for a low-knowledge audience — bits of it will be fuel for tweets, website squibs, late night newscasts, etc. Oh yeah, NASA was dead until Trump brought it to life again! And he’s created a Space Force which is really going to rule the sky. This is so much better than anything the Democrats did!”

    And 50 to 500 years from now, that “historic” speech is going to look darned impressive in kiddies’ schoolbooks. Let us all praise astronauts Cook and Meir for their (unintentional) contribution to the TRUMP 2020 campaign!

    Maybe I’m cynical.

    • kcowing says:
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      This was broadcast to millions of citizens in its entirety. The President of the United States, the Administrator of NASA, and astronauts on the ISS participated in their official capacities. The President said what he said. You are on the verge of trolling again.

      • fcrary says:
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        I’m not sure. The comment was a bit lacking in terms of structure and coherence. I’m tempted to apply the Turing Test and wonder if it was a bot rather than a troll.

        • mike shupp says:
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          Hmmm …. I recall Nixon’s call to Aldrin and Armstrong in 1969 and Jerry Ford’s call to Viking program manager James Martin back in 1976. In both cases I had a sense that the President and the people he spoke to were having a conversation — stilted a bit, but still an actual exchange of words and thoughts with each other. Trump’s call seemed aimed not at the astronauts but at bystanders quite ignorant of space matters.
          Did it strike you differently?

          • kcowing says:
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            The point of all this attention was the first all-female EVA. Either Trump was not briefed or did not understand what was happening such that he made a really big error – and the crew suddenly had to correct him. I do not recall Nixon ever being that ignorant and/or ill informed.

          • fcrary says:
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            I am reminded of Vice President Danforth Quayle. He got lots of bad press for saying stupid things. Some of that was deserved, some was just the press exaggerating mistakes and jokes which fell flat. Those are things everyone does; once you get a reputation for being a bonehead, they all tend to get taken the wrong way. But what I really wondered about was his staff. Like Mr. Trump, Mr. Quayle had a whole lot of people working for him, and some of them are supposed to spend their time keeping the boss from putting his foot in his mouth. When they don’t or can’t, I really have to think something’s wrong.

  3. Keith Vauquelin says:
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    Easy for me to criticise. I haven’t done things that he has. Nevertheless, I WON’T DO THINGS he has. And, like our country, my customers, friends, family, and myself will be better for it. President Trump sets no standard I will bear, and no example I will follow.

    • fcrary says:
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      Not to go off on a political tangent, but… That’s close to my largest concern about the Trump presidency. This sort of behavior sets a precedent, and one which future presidents and politicians may very well follow. Without saying anything about the accusations against Mr. Trump, if he is not impeached, it will be acceptable for future presidents to ask foreign governments to investigate their political rivals. Almost random, factual errors on twitter are now normal and expected from the people running the country, and no one really gets upset about it. I came across an interesting book a year or so ago, “The Storm Before the Storm”, about the late Roman Republic. The Republic didn’t fall due to the civil wars. It was more an erosion of the precedents and checks and balances, based on expediency, which formally made the republic functional. (Ok. Now I’lll stop ranting and try to stay on topic…)

  4. David Fowler says:
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    Worst salesman for the sixth service branch ever.

  5. tutiger87 says:
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    How do folks still justify voting for him?

    • Skinny_Lu says:
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      I consider myself left of center and have “known” Trump since he did interviews with Howard Stern. Sleaze bag to the core & he’s proud of it. =) Yet, everyone who voted for him did it because it was a binary (0 or 1 decision) “She” had so much political baggage… it stunk…. So, people figured, how bad can it get? Let’s try the outsider…
      It was either one or the other.
      Is that answer the question? =)

      • Skinny_Lu says:
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        I left out that I did not vote for Trump… Instead, I *wasted* my vote on someone else and frankly, I don’t even remember who. =( What do you do when both options are horrible? In another world, we could have an option on the ballot. None Of the Above. If no one gets more than 50% of the votes, the election must be repeated with different candidates…. of course this is not practical. Hey, it’s my vote so, I can do whatever I want with it. =)

        • fcrary says:
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          Despite what many people say, that’s not a wasted vote. In most cases, third parties can only get on the ballot is they win a certain number of votes in the previous election (or collect an impractically large number of signatures on a petition.) And, historically, although they rarely win, third parties have had a strong influence on American politics. As soon as they get more votes to swing an electron from one of the major parties to another, one of the major parties coopts their agenda.

        • tesh says:
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          There was a great South Park episode that applies here and in general across all politics – the choice is always between a doushebag and a turd sandwich!

    • Mr.Anderson says:
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      a majority of people didn’t.

  6. Jeff2Space says:
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    After watching the video, I was left wondering if Trump’s casual move of his middle finger on his forehead was intended to communicate his disdain for being corrected.

  7. ThomasLMatula says:
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    It is interesting to note that before this mission it appears only 11 women have walked in space, one Cosmonaut and ten American. The first EVA by a woman was on July 25, 1984 by Svenlana Sevitskaya, followed on Oct. 11, 1984 by Kathryn Sullivan. Currently the vast majority of female space travelers are American, with other nations only having a handful. I believe only 1 of the current 27 Cosmonauts is a woman. It’s sad really, especially so outside the United States. There is a lot of catching up to do. You also have to wonder why it took NASA 35 years to do an all female spacewalk.

    • mike shupp says:
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      Still not that many American women astronauts and not that many flight opportunities. I rather think if NASA had cause to build up to 1000-person astronaut corps and flew them all with no more than a couple of years between flights, it’d be easy to get a more equal balance of men and women (and more blacks and Asians for that matter), and more even EVA assignments.

      Whether true equality might ever come … I skep a bit. It strikes me most would-be astronauts would like to get command or pilot jobs, and those seem to be limited to people coming into the program with previous pilot experience — chiefly ex-military types. So there’s a selection bias towards males. Right now, anyhow; if Musk gets his Starship flying regularly with 100 passengers at a time, the couple of pilots won’t have much impact on sex ratios.

      • kcowing says:
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        Most of the skills required to be an astronaut do not require piloting skills. Full stop.
        Virtually all of the skills required to be an astronaut do not require military experience. Full stop.
        NONE of the skills required to be an astronaut are limited to one gender. Full stop.

        • mike shupp says:
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          Not disputing any of these. The more interesting issue, it strikes me, is whether men or women (or children of either sex) cope better — over their lifetimes — with extended stays in zero gee or reduced gravity environments. And if sex does make a difference, are there methods to equalize long term survival rates for space settlers? We’re awfully far from answering those questions.

        • fcrary says:
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          Which makes it especially odd that so many astronauts, especially pilots and mission commanders, are ex-military fighter pilots. As you note, that is not a meaningful qualification. So I’d say military fighter pilots in the astronaut corps represent a very overrepresented minority.

          • ThomasLMatula says:
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            It’s a good example of organizational inertia. In the Apollo era NASA wanted test pilots because they wanted their skills in debugging the new vehicles. Scientist astronauts were an after thought and viewed as less capable in an emergency. The addition of scientists as astronauts only came about from strong pressure by the science community. NASA added a few, but stills sees human space flight from that earlier perspective of test flying.

            Seeing astronauts as scientists and field researchers is going to be one of the huge changes in mindset NASA will need to make as it transitions to the era of commercial human space flight where NASA personal will only be passengers and not the crew on private spacecraft. But as it goes to the core of the image, and culture, of NASA it won’t be an easy change for the agency.

        • cynical_space says:
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          “Most of the skills required to be an astronaut do not require piloting skills. Full stop.”
          This is absolutely correct, however…

          Back too many years ago when I played the “Apply for Astronaut Mission Specialist” game, NASA’s attitude at the time was that those applicants with pilot’s licenses were more favorably viewed than those without. Again, I am talking about applicants to the Mission Specialist positions, not pilot. Whether that is still true today I do not know, but it would not surprise me.

      • Steve Pemberton says:
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        “It strikes me most would-be astronauts would like to get command or pilot jobs”

        Where are you getting that from? I have heard many astronauts talk about how they became interested in becoming an astronaut and it had nothing to do with flying a spacecraft, it had to do with going into space. The exception was the pilot astronauts, most if not all of whom had military flying backgrounds, naturally they talked about wanting to fly a Shuttle. But there were only two of those on each Shuttle mission, and of course none for the past eight years.

  8. mfwright says:
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    Seems to me those outside astronaut office and mission planners are the ones making a big deal of this. Though an interesting moment illustrating the demographics of the astronaut corps of now and what it used to be.

    What gets me is these are 30 to 40 year old suits (and there’s not many in the inventory) from the Shuttle program. Probably an interesting discussion of why after so many decades there is real discussion of creating new suits. There were many projects to come up with a new suit but they never got into production.

    EDIT: I was impressed with when the astronauts mentioned they don’t want to take too much credit as there were many others before them.

  9. Daniel Woodard says:
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    I am living in Florida, indeed in a county that hosts a NASA center. Trump’s popularity is only too apparent. In a world where critical thinking is dead and confirmation bias is alive and well, Trump makes people feel that they would be rich if it were not for the conspiracies of others who are different from themselves. It is a powerful message, and he is by no means the first to wield it.

  10. Vladislaw says:
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    I was waiting for Ivanka to say “oh daddy can I be an astronaut”

  11. Josh Freeman says:
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    NASA is still dead. FYI

  12. Michael Spencer says:
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    By and large this is a very civil group. There’s back and forth over many issues, usually civil, rarely personal, almost always respectful. I wanted the answer, and disappointed to get nothing but deleted posts.

    • fcrary says:
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      I don’t know about the deletions, but I’ll toss out an answer. A large number of people were sick of the status quo in Washington. They did not want to elect people who were part of an established party, who appear to be part of some elite and who consider themselves privileged and above the law. That is exactly the image those people had of Ms. Clinton, and (bizarrely) Mr. Trump managed not to project that image. I think that’s something the Democratic party needs to understand, going into the 2020 election. But that’s trying to tell the party establishment that being part of the party establishment is a horrible idea. I guess I’m not in an optimistic mood today.

  13. Mr.Anderson says:
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    This idiot always makes everything about himself and ignores facts. He’s an embarrassment.

  14. Mr.Anderson says:
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    the vast number of those examples that you attribute to trump would have happened regardless thanks to policies and bills passed in years before trump took office.

  15. Mr.Anderson says:
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    But you aren’t discussing general politics as you gave a rather detailed list of why you think trump is a good president.

  16. hikingmike says:
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    agree with the perception of an entrenched status quo elite is looking down their nose and putting all sorts of agendas ahead of us …

    Regarding the last part of your post – it would seem that reducing inequality and improving socioeconomic mobility should be good goals to fit those sentiments. Those ideas have somewhere to go, whereas blaming elites doesn’t get you anywhere. There will always be “elites”, and some will be bad, even if we switch out the current ones.

    That’s hard when you think you’ve been a responsible citizen your whole life.

    It is true a lot of people break or bend the rules and take advantage to get to “the top”, regardless of other merits. Yeah, I don’t like it, we don’t like it. Even though the negative impact of that is widely distributed, there are people who lose out because of that, it’s us. Better rules or rule-enforcement to increase fairness would be the counter to that, right? And the person the country elected President is a symbol of breaking rules to take advantage, and also a symbol of mostly only caring about himself, so that really didn’t make sense.

  17. hikingmike says:
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    That is just painfully, painfully bad. Thank goodness for the astronauts.

    I’ll mention that I saw a news blurb elsewhere about this and the quote was just this part of it –

    I JUST WANT TO CONGRATULATE YOU, WHAT YOU DO IS INCREDIBLE. SO, YOU’RE VERY BRAVE PEOPLE. I DON’T THINK I WANT TO DO IT. I MUST TELL YOU THAT. BUT YOU ARE AMAZING PEOPLE. THEY’RE CONDUCTING THE FIRST EVER FEMALE SPACE WALK TO REPLACE AN EXTERIOR PART OF THE SPACE STATION.

    Which sounds fine, so that gave me absolutely no idea that this actually happened and was this bad.